For my buddy Grouper

Rick Moquin

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Just trudging along :)
 

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grouper52

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Just trudging along :)

Rick! Great to hear from you again after all this time. Us old-timers seem to drift into and out of the forums over time, but we're both here now for the moment.

I got your PM - glad Ruth is doing well, and the two of you together. And congrats on conquering that demon!

Your trees are coming along nicely - thanks for thinking of me when you posted them.

Your PM asked about a signed copy of the book - I'll see to it that it happens! You'll love it. I'll PM you later about the details: we've had some trouble getting books into Canada because of an ongoing postal strike or somesuch, but Elandan knows more about that than I do, and we'll work it out.

Not much new here, except that I've now got more trees than I want/need/can-keep-up-with, and, since I prefer to spend my time collecting and taking trees through the initial few years of styling, rather than the further refining and maintaining phases, I may be selling some of my more finished ones. Something I've not done until now, and something that stirs up a lot of mixed feelings.

Anyway, we'll chat via PM. Thanks for thinking of me, and for posting you trees here. Great to see them and to hear from you.

Will
 

Attila Soos

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I may be selling some of my more finished ones. Something I've not done until now, and something that stirs up a lot of mixed feelings.

Hey Will,
since you mentioned this, I am thinking about doing the same, and start selling some trees. I have too many, and it will soon become impossible to have a healthy balance. What are your thoughts on doing this? Are you thinking of setting up your own site for it, or some other venues? I think I will set up my own site, since that will allow me to have more control over the content.
I've never done it so far, and my feelings are mixed as well.
For instance, the other day I was looking at a mostly finished olive bonsai that I have (chuhin size), and I realized that if I received a good offer from somebody who I don't trust to keep it alive and well, I couldn't sell it, no matter how much money he offered. It would break my heart to imagine it die in a semi-dark room, on the top of a coffey-table. May be the best way to do this, is that I sell those that are not so close to my heart, and keep the ones that I feel the closest to, regardless of the actual quality of the tree.
 
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Smoke

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I got news for the both of you, its not so much your emotional attachment to a tree as much as it's the fact that you will never get as much from selling the tree as you have put into it. To sell a tree to someone that may kill it and give it away financially is pretty hard to take.

If you could sell a tree for what you really feel it's worth without haggleing...what happens later to it is pretty easy to take.

Been there...done that


I have felt the best when I have just given the tree away to someone I feel is really into bonsai in a newbi way, yet feels they can never find a better tree to work on. Thats the greatest feeling of all. There are many on this forum whom I have given a great many things to from stands, trees and stones. While I have no idea what happened to those things, giving them away is really a different feeling.
 
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Attila Soos

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I got news for the both of you, its not so much your emotional attachment to a tree as much as it's the fact that you will never get as much from selling the tree as you have put into it. To sell a tree to someone that may kill it and give it away financially is pretty hard to take.

If you could sell a tree for what you really feel it's worth without haggleing...what happens later to it is pretty easy to take.

Been there...done that


I have felt the best when I have just given the tree away to someone I feel is really into bonsai in a newbi way, yet feels they can never find a better tree to work on. Thats the greatest feeling of all. There are many on this forum whom I have given a great many things to from stands, trees and stones. While I have no idea what happened to those things, giving them away is really a different feeling.

I agree, usually we feel that the tree is worth more than what somebody ends up paying for it. But I will be very reasonable, when it comes to pricing. For instance, for a very good quality chuhin (or shohin), I would ask in the range of $500. This would be a tree that is very close to what one would call a "finished tree".

Also, if you put them up on a website, you don't really need to haggle with anybody. There is no pressure to sell, so you leave the price for a few months, and then, if there are no takers, you lower it by $100. At some point, somebody will want to buy it.

Yes, giving the tree away is a great feeling, when you see how much the person appreciates it.
 

bonsai barry

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During my first year in bonsai, a member of the BonsaiTalk forum was moving out of state and giving away his trees. I drove a total of twelve hours but it was worth it! I came back with both trees and pots. Many died but I learned so much working with something other than the $8 Home Depot juniper. Every time I water the trees or use one of the pots that he gave me, I think kind thoughts... and that was five years ago. If you give your trees away, I'm sure an equal number of good thought will be going your way, too.
 

Smoke

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I've misjudged your impact to the Cal. shohin scene. I have not seen too many shohin around that could bring 500.00.
 

JudyB

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As someone who does buy material online (no resources except normal nurseries here) I am watching this conversation with great interest. Although I will do a road trip for the occasional amazing tree. I know there is a place here to sell on this forum...
I add one good tree per year to my collection, something that is further along than I would be able to take it in my lifetime... This has taught much more than I could learn from lesser stock. I am sure I'm not the only person reading this thread that would jump at the chance to acquire a G52 or others "seconds";)

I think of all the people who's shoulders I'm standing on, every time I work a tree that has come to me in this manner.
 

Attila Soos

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I think of all the people who's shoulders I'm standing on, every time I work a tree that has come to me in this manner.

Yes, this is the greatest thing about bonsai. The work of generations is accumulated in one little tree. Some of the trees I'm working on, have already passed two generations of bonsai artists, before they got to me. After working on them for a decade and a half(or more) myself, it's hard to let them go without any assurance that they will be well cared for. The dillemma is that people who would pay a good price for such a multi-generational tree, may not have the necessary skill. For them, $500 is nothing. On the other hand, for people who you know that they will be thrilled to own such a tree, $500 is not an affordable option. I tend to believe that I'd rather sell the tree for half the price (and basically get back my money that I paid for it, as raw material) if I know that the tree will continue to thrive in the future.
 

Randy

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Attila,

You paid X amount of money for a tree, assuming it was a price for a possession. Perhaps you really paid X amount of money for your chance to develop, foster, learn from and enjoy that tree until maybe it was some other person's time to assume care for that tree. Everyone may have a varied perception.
 

Attila Soos

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Attila,

You paid X amount of money for a tree, assuming it was a price for a possession. Perhaps you really paid X amount of money for your chance to develop, foster, learn from and enjoy that tree until maybe it was some other person's time to assume care for that tree. Everyone may have a varied perception.

Very well put. Every tree that we buy, gives us a chance to enjoy that tree and learn from it. Money is just incidental.

When you ask 20 people about how much a tree is worth, you will get 20 different answers. Everybody will tell you how much the tree is worth TO THEM. All you can do, is take the price that is acceptable to you, or don't sell the tree at all.
 
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bonsai barry

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Attila,

You paid X amount of money for a tree, assuming it was a price for a possession. Perhaps you really paid X amount of money for your chance to develop, foster, learn from and enjoy that tree until maybe it was some other person's time to assume care for that tree. Everyone may have a varied perception.

Wow!! I Like this logic. Attila, you should pay me for taking the tree off of your hands.
 

Attila Soos

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Wow!! I Like this logic. Attila, you should pay me for taking the tree off of your hands.

I know.
It reminds me of the way the Native Americans believed about owning land, when the European settlers took possession of this country. The indians said that one cannot own the land (cannot be bought and sold), because land is for everybody to be used. One can take care of it, and use it, but never possess it.

Same with bonsai.
It's a nice thought, but I am not sure that it will fly with the vendor, when I propose it for my next purchase of top quality material. I think I will still have to dish out at least a couple of hundred, for good measure, plus another hundred for a nice pot. It's funny how we always have to pay when we buy it, but ask for nothing when selling it.;)
 
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Smoke

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Well if you got those kind of trees maybe I can expect to see four or five at the shohin seminar next month, either for sale or in the exhibit.
 

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