Force Larch to come out of dormancy

Nishant

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Hello Friends,

If I keep my larch tree in a greenhouse, can I force it come out of dormancy earlier say by mid of February, by giving it light and temprature? Is there any disadvantage of doing this?

Thanks for sharing your knowledge/experience on this?
 

leatherback

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You could. But why would you?

You set yourself up for early frost, low light intensity and uncontrolled pests.

But after the required time for dormancy has passed, roughly after 2-3 months, you can trigger growth of most deciduous by increasing temperature.

But why would you?
 

Nishant

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You could. But why would you?

You set yourself up for early frost, low light intensity and uncontrolled pests.


But why would you?
Just to enjoy it early for a little longer. Say if I have a conservatory where I can manage the temprature and light and where I will be keeping the tree untill weather outside is conducive, is there any way the tree will dislike it. I also see it as the tree getting more time in a year and thus more time to strengthen up, if it was week last year.
 

penumbra

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Just to enjoy it early for a little longer. Say if I have a conservatory where I can manage the temprature and light and where I will be keeping the tree untill weather outside is conducive, is there any way the tree will dislike it. I also see it as the tree getting more time in a year and thus more time to strengthen up, if it was week last year.
IMHO it is not a good idea. Let the plant enjoy the seasons. If you are bored get another tree.
 

Paradox

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Yes that will work if the greenhouse is warmer that outside.
Why would you want to do this?

Yes it could be detrimental to the tree if it hasnt gotten enough dormancy period. That will weaken the tree, not strengthen it.

I also suggest if you want something to view year round, get a ficus or brazilian rain tree and set up a spot with lights in a corner of your house so you can enjoy it all winter then put it outside when its warm enough in the summer.

Let the larch get the proper sleep (dormancy).
 

leatherback

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Just to enjoy it early for a little longer. Say if I have a conservatory where I can manage the temprature and light and where I will be keeping the tree untill weather outside is conducive, is there any way the tree will dislike it. I also see it as the tree getting more time in a year and thus more time to strengthen up, if it was week last year.
how do you function on 2 hours of sleep less per night?
 

Nishant

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My main motivation is that if say a branch did not store enough food to last for the full dormancy then it be better to wake up than die hungry while sleeping. I know the plants don’t need a lot of energy during dormancy but still they do. So just want to use this as strategy to prevent losing branches. Also if they get a longer season it will get more time to build roots as well
 

penumbra

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My main motivation is that if say a branch did not store enough food to last for the full dormancy then it be better to wake up than die hungry while sleeping. I know the plants don’t need a lot of energy during dormancy but still they do. So just want to use this as strategy to prevent losing branches. Also if they get a longer season it will get more time to build roots as well
You ae overthinking this. You haven't given a valid reason for wanting to disrupt your tree's growth.
 

Forsoothe!

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I agree with all above. It doesn't matter what you want, it's the tree that needs the quiet time to rejuvenate. Larch are acclimated all the up to the Arctic Circle and do poorly in places with hot summers and warm soil. The temperature of the roots is important and pots exaggerate hot feet. If you want a needle tree for warmer places you would be better off looking at Cryptomeria, or Australian and Mediterranean trees.
 

HorseloverFat

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If you try to trick your trees..

They will try to trick you right back...

🤓

One would think, with this attempted, weaker extension of the growing season in a greenhouse conditions is a GREAT environment.. for many pests...

Spider Mitus Oninus..
 

leatherback

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Wires_Guy_wires

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Let me play advocate for the devil for a minute.

Larches wake up regardless of daytime length, they can go dormant regardless of daytime length. In a freezing environment, part of their natural range, they go dormant and freeze to the core - with some minor sap flow going on due to high sugars and stuff.
When a plant is frozen, it does nothing. The internal activity during dormancy during 4 months of frosts is roughly the same as activity for 1 week in average temperatures.
So after a full arctic winter, total internal activity has been 8 warm weeks in fall, 1 week (accounting for 4 months of being frozen) and another 4-8 weeks till wake up time. In cold locations that is, of course.

I'm a little convinced that as long as the onset and start of the dormancy were done right, you can pull a tree out of dormancy whenever you please - IF the tree isn't daylight sensitive. All of the activity during dormancy, making it a solid one, has been during those warmer times. If the transitions are right, the tree isn't going to notice if those cold days were 30, 90, or 120 days, activity wise they count as "just a hand full".

I store seeds in a freezer, seeds with a lifespan of +/- 4 months at room temperature. At -20C I can keep them viable for roughly 8+ years, without added water or even fresh air. This hints towards total stand still, or at least a huge decrease in activity. These seeds don't know, they perform as good as fresh seeds.

Please debate this with me. I can make logical arguments for both keeping dormancy at natural levels, as well as the benefit of stopping dormancy a bit earlier. This is a subject I haven't dug my teeth in to a whole lot and I'd like to hear what you guys have to say about it.
 

penumbra

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the tree isn't going to notice
This is the part I have to rebel against. In my reality the tree is going to notice.
I store seeds in a freezer, seeds with a lifespan of +/- 4 months at room temperature. At -20C I can keep them viable for roughly 8+ years
In other words, the seed is doing what a seed is supposed to do.
 

Forsoothe!

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Larches are full sun trees and cannot be kept in anything except full, direct sun. That would be a greenhouse with plastic windows and probably not less than 8 hours direct mid-day sun.
 

Nishant

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Larches are full sun trees and cannot be kept in anything except full, direct sun. That would be a greenhouse with plastic windows and probably not less than 8 hours direct mid-day sun.
From what I have learnt through discussions is that Larch cannot take higher temprature. So if the air temprature is low, you can give it as much sun, just like in upper lattitudes. But if the air is not cold, then then sun is going to heat up the trunk and scortch the leaves of Larch, causing branch drop next year. Same with roots. Everyone told me to keep Larch in semi-shade here in London and prevent hot feet.
 

Forsoothe!

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I wasn't aware that it actually got "hot" in London, and according to weatherspark, it doesn't.
 

Wires_Guy_wires

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I wasn't aware that it actually got "hot" in London, and according to weatherspark, it doesn't.
On average, our country knows no high temperatures either. But in 2019 we've hit air temperatures - in the shade - of 40 degrees C (104F, average: 18 C / 65F). 2020 was not that far off. To my knowledge, the UK is experiencing similar patterns with high temp spikes.
 

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