Force Larch to come out of dormancy

[sorce]

Larches wake up regardless of daytime length, they can go dormant regardless of daytime length.

We can't really know this is true either.

I don't believe in "chill hours" as we understand it, but I would never consider bringing anything out of dormancy early, ESPECIALLY not Larch.

All the other problems aside, for me, it's about training it to do something it doesn't want to be doing, getting it there, then not being able to keep providing that environment. A move, a broken window or thermostat in the green house, a power outage.....any one of these things happen and that tree is going to die.

Then what was the effort worth?

For me, every year it works is just a larger sting in the ass when it finally dies.

This whole, PUT TREES IN THE SHADE TO KEEP EM COOL THING...

Which has been kinda hiding it's moronicness under the guise of good faith, is getting out of control!

Just cool the damn roots like nature does! The trees need their sun!

It's like holding your child underwater because they're hot. Ferkin Sterpid.

Sorce

 

[Nishant]

I wasn't aware that it actually got "hot" in London, and according to weatherspark, it doesn't.

I don't know what weatherspark says but I live in London and for people around here, it does get too hot for at least two weeks. For Larch, that would be way too high, enough to burn the thin fibrous roots. No?

 

[Nishant]

Just cool the damn roots like nature does! The trees need their sun!

Just cooling the roots may not be sufficient. On days when the sun is scortching, keep Larch away, I think is what makes sense.

 

[sorce]

Just cooling the roots may not be sufficient.

If this becomes true, we must accept the fact that this tree is out of our possibility.

Sorce

 

[HorseloverFat]

Yes... just like zones 7- (tender, non arid/tropical)9 (and even some tender SIXes).. are just NOT WISE for me, personally to keep, in my area.

...sad but true.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

We can't really know this is true either.

I don't believe in "chill hours" as we understand it, but I would never consider bringing anything out of dormancy early, ESPECIALLY not Larch.

All the other problems aside, for me, it's about training it to do something it doesn't want to be doing, getting it there, then not being able to keep providing that environment. A move, a broken window or thermostat in the green house, a power outage.....any one of these things happen and that tree is going to die.

Then what was the effort worth?

For me, every year it works is just a larger sting in the ass when it finally dies.

This whole, PUT TREES IN THE SHADE TO KEEP EM COOL THING...

Which has been kinda hiding it's moronicness under the guise of good faith, is getting out of control!

Just cool the damn roots like nature does! The trees need their sun!

It's like holding your child underwater because they're hot. Ferkin Sterpid.

Sorce

What do you mean you can't know?
My larches went dormant at the end of summer due to environmental heat stress. We see people keeping them indoors and they wake up from those high temperatures. Regardless of daylength.

Lessons are worth a lot in my book. It justifies effort and moronic decisions; it adds to the knowledge base. I want to get rid of the idea that just because nobody does it or has done it, it's automatically assumed to be a bad practice.
We don't know until somebody tries.
And until we do know, I think the answer should be somewhere in the middle.

What if this tree becomes stronger than ever? We'd see everyone hopping on the bandwagon, copying the method.

20 years ago nobody was doing seedling cuttings in pines. Look at where we are now.
We can't do evolution without revolutions causing revelations.

 

[HorseloverFat]

What do you mean you can't know?
My larches went dormant at the end of summer due to environmental heat stress. We see people keeping them indoors and they wake up from those high temperatures. Regardless of daylength.

Lessons are worth a lot in my book. It justifies effort and moronic decisions; it adds to the knowledge base. I want to get rid of the idea that just because nobody does it or has done it, it's automatically assumed to be a bad practice.
We don't know until somebody tries.
And until we do know, I think the answer should be somewhere in the middle.

What if this tree becomes stronger than ever? We'd see everyone hopping on the bandwagon, copying the method.

20 years ago nobody was doing seedling cuttings in pines. Look at where we are now.
We can't do evolution without revolutions causing revelations.

Like how UPstrokes on stringed instruments changed the world.

 

[penumbra]

We can't do evolution without revolutions causing revelations.

I'd love to see that on a bumper sticker.

 

[penumbra]

I wasn't aware that it actually got "hot" in London, and according to weatherspark, it doesn't.

Yeah, listen to the weatherman. That always works.

 

[Forsoothe!]

I'm sorry, it's as close to the science of weather history as I can get.

 

[sorce]

I'd love to see that on a bumper sticker.

I'd love to see the dude crashing trying to figure it out!

What do you mean you can't know?
My larches went dormant at the end of summer due to environmental heat stress. We see people keeping them indoors and they wake up from those high temperatures. Regardless of daylength.

I was thinking more "unconfused" and naturally. Heat Stress and Indoor Hot temps are already bad and "confusing" to me, so I wouldn't consider it a useable technique.

Sorce

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

I'd love to see the dude crashing trying to figure it out!


I was thinking more "unconfused" and naturally. Heat Stress and Indoor Hot temps are already bad and "confusing" to me, so I wouldn't consider it a useable technique.

Sorce

I see.
It is kind of confusing. Apart from the shade stuff, that I agree with. I think if the guy has a greenhouse with stable conditions, what's the harm in extending the growing season by a couple months?

Larches in Italy are already flushing out, over here they're just starting to get those golden nuggets. In Italy they get 2 months of extra growth every season compared to here. Same species.
Agreed, genetic advantages to certain locations play a part in this.. But we've seen that most trees that travel half a continent aren't that confused at all.

I have junipers from Portugal where the lowest temp is 10 degrees C. I threw those outdoors when I got them. They survived -15°C and will have a +/- 3 month decrease in growing season compared to the climate where they come from.
If it works one way, I don't see why it wouldn't work another way around.

Of course, there is the safe route and I do recommend taking it. But that's not exciting at all!

 

[Forsoothe!]

I don't remember the name of the term, but many species that grow across many USDA zones have "sub-species"? that are acclimated to specific local/regional? climates, like Acer rubrum from Maine to Florida, USA. I think it is generally accepted that you need to take steps to acclimate stock taken from one extreme to the other in reasonable increments. Some of these brother groups move more easily north to south or south to north than others. Bald Cypress will grow in Michigan 500 miles north of their native range. In the case of the Larch, I'd bet that elevation matters and growing on a north or east facing slope in Italy would work a lot better than a south or west slope. Micro-climates matter.

 

[Paradox]

I see.
It is kind of confusing. Apart from the shade stuff, that I agree with. I think if the guy has a greenhouse with stable conditions, what's the harm in extending the growing season by a couple months?

Larches in Italy are already flushing out, over here they're just starting to get those golden nuggets. In Italy they get 2 months of extra growth every season compared to here. Same species.
Agreed, genetic advantages to certain locations play a part in this.. But we've seen that most trees that travel half a continent aren't that confused at all.

I have junipers from Portugal where the lowest temp is 10 degrees C. I threw those outdoors when I got them. They survived -15°C and will have a +/- 3 month decrease in growing season compared to the climate where they come from.
If it works one way, I don't see why it wouldn't work another way around.

Of course, there is the safe route and I do recommend taking it. But that's not exciting at all!

I do agree trees can adapt...to a point. There are biological and physiological requirements that must be met or the tree will decline.
If this larch is a relatively inexpensive small tree, by all means experiment but don't be upset if it dies.
I sure as hell am not going to experiment on a tree I spent a few hundred dollars on or have owned, grown and developed over many years.

 

[Jorgens86]

Just cooling the roots may not be sufficient. On days when the sun is scortching, keep Larch away, I think is what makes sense.

Larches can cool themselves if they have enough fooliage. You dont beed to put your tree anywhere. Larch start to dexline in full sen when theres not much green on them, thats all.

 

[Forsoothe!]

Larch is a full sun tree, period. The person in charge of keeping it watered has to do the job. If that person plants the tree in too small of a pot then we know what and especially who to blame for problems of drought. This is not debatable.

 

[leatherback]

Larch is a full sun tree, period. The person in charge of keeping it watered has to do the job. If that person plants the tree in too small of a pot then we know what and especially who to blame for problems of drought. This is not debatable.

Larch in Europe is a cool air species, growing mostly in cool areas, mountain ranges. They get heat stress more easily than other species. That is not debatable.

Just watering does NOT solve that problem. It is NOT drought stress.
Whether pot size is the problem of trees experiencing summer stress, is debatable.

 

[Nishant]

Larch in Europe is a cool air species, growing mostly in cool areas, mountain ranges. They get heat stress more easily than other species. That is not debatable.
Just watering does NOT solve that problem. It is NOT drought stress.

Agree on this. My experience here in London and as told by a few peope as well. Larch will not take high temprature. If the air cannot cool faster than the sun heats it, it will be in trouble.

 

[Jorgens86]

Thats why use japanese or hybrid larch. These 2 take heat very well.