joepa82
Sapling
I was wondering what methods were used to create taper in a formal upright tree. The only method I have found is by "jinning" the top. Trunk chops would seem to create a bit of movement which is not ideal. Any suggestions?
formal upright taper
- Thread starter joepa82
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iant
Chumono
This is a very good question and one that puzzled me for a long time.
I'm not sure of the balance in the answer but I think it's probably a combination of many years of patience (growth in a pot with the same relative shape) and sacrifice branching. I don't think jinning the top helps that much as that doesn't get you any taper.
Ian
I'm not sure of the balance in the answer but I think it's probably a combination of many years of patience (growth in a pot with the same relative shape) and sacrifice branching. I don't think jinning the top helps that much as that doesn't get you any taper.
Ian
october
Masterpiece
Depending on the species and health of the tree. Cutting back to one or two branches, then wiring that branch up for a new leader works well. Basically, you are growing a whole new upper portion of the tree from this wired up branch. Eventually, that branch thickens and the site of the cut will start to look more natural as that branch thickens up. It may take awhile, but it can produce good results. Also, depending on the view of the tree. The chop could be made so that it is in the back. You would not even see the chop.
Here is a virt.
Here is a virt.
Attachments
Poink88
Imperial Masterpiece
In line with October's drawings...you may also do this to create a better transition...just be careful! 
(also depends on how brittle/flexible the plant is)
View attachment 33431
Another means is by growing lots of low sacrificial branches but those may leave scars as well as "bumps".
(also depends on how brittle/flexible the plant is)View attachment 33431
Another means is by growing lots of low sacrificial branches but those may leave scars as well as "bumps".
I did this very thing on my Wintergreen Juniper in this progression thread.
I left a temporary stub from the original trunk to wire the branch to. Make sure there is no kink in the trunk line. Since the trunk/branch area was fairly thick, I used a thick rubber pad under the copper wire used to draw the two halves together. I tightened the wire slowly throughout the day to bring the branch up to a straight line.
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october
Masterpiece
I remember your thread very well. It was great work that created a great tree. Very nice formal upright. Although it may seem that Formals are or should be easy to create. It is just the opposite. A well done informal upright is just like a well done bunjin. May seem easy, but it is some of the hardest things to pull off successfully.
Rob
joepa82
Sapling
Did you do anything to the exposed wood you brought together, or anything to seal off the area once they were joined?
The stub was trimmed off after the new leader was grown out enough to hold its position. In my case, the area was used as a deadwood area (shari) to add an appearance of age. Based on the better surface roots, this area became part of the back of the tree and is not now part of the design.
Eric Schrader
Chumono
If you are growing the trees from scratch, plan the chop well ahead of time. Wire the trunk so it's straight and then bend over a strong branch at a 90 degree angle where there is also a weaker branch and wire the weaker one up to be the new apex. As the trunk expands, the smaller of the two (which will be the finished apex) grows slowly because it is inhibited by the sacrifice branch.
When you cut off the sacrifice you're left with shorter nodes on your new trunk so you get better branching. I think two or three rounds of this will give you a good taper. After that a couple decades of slow growth will probably even out the transitions even more.
I'm attaching a photo of my only attempt at a formal upright from scratch. The front is actually a little to the right of the photo and I think I bent the sacrifice down just a tiny bit too high. The wire that's on there right now is bending over a second bud that will become another sacrifice. It's a JBP.
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Eric,
It's time to lop off that sacrifice leader on your formal upright. Not only are formal uprights supposed to have straight trunks, they are not supposed to have huge scars! Yeah, I know, impossible. But that sacrifice has done it's job.
It's time to lop off that sacrifice leader on your formal upright. Not only are formal uprights supposed to have straight trunks, they are not supposed to have huge scars! Yeah, I know, impossible. But that sacrifice has done it's job.
Eric Schrader
Chumono
I'm working on it. If this were a juniper or a deciduous tree I'd do it all at once; but since it's a pine and I want to maintain the vigor of the tree through the process I removed only the top half of the sacrifice and will wait another year to remove most or all of the rest. In the interim the new leader will get more foliage so that the tree doesn't slow down when the sacrifice is removed.
The tree is 10 years or more away from show quality so it's not really worth worrying about. I work on the seedlings once or twice per year to move them along or correct any problems, any more meddling would just slow down the trunk growth.
Cheers.
Eric,
To help the tree transfer its energy to the new leader, the auxin flow from the old sacrifice leader needs to be stopped. That's good if you have chopped some on the sacrifice. This summer be sure to decandle it. But don't decandle your new leader.
This should help the tree transfer the energy to the new leader.
To help the tree transfer its energy to the new leader, the auxin flow from the old sacrifice leader needs to be stopped. That's good if you have chopped some on the sacrifice. This summer be sure to decandle it. But don't decandle your new leader.
This should help the tree transfer the energy to the new leader.
drew33998
Masterpiece
Unless you are the guy that created this. Although it is a forest wouldn't the same general rules still apply to the singular
styling of each tree?A good way to remove a sacrifice brance is to do over a two or three year period. Start by cutting a V cut at the top of the crotch where the sac branch joins the trunk. Cut 1/3 to 1/2 the way thru. Then, fill the void with cut paste.
What will happen is the scar will begin to heal faster on the trunk. And the section below the trunk won't die off as sometimes happens if its just removed in one go.
Next year, do another 1/3. You may have to support the branch with some heavy wire so it won't split off. Again, fill with cut paste. The third year, finish the removal.
Boon and I are doing exactly this process on my big black pine. My sacrifice branch had a two inch diameter where it came off the trunk.
What will happen is the scar will begin to heal faster on the trunk. And the section below the trunk won't die off as sometimes happens if its just removed in one go.
Next year, do another 1/3. You may have to support the branch with some heavy wire so it won't split off. Again, fill with cut paste. The third year, finish the removal.
Boon and I are doing exactly this process on my big black pine. My sacrifice branch had a two inch diameter where it came off the trunk.
That forest was created by John Naka.
I took workshops with John.
My copy of "Bonsai Techniques I" was personally signed by John, and reads:
To Adair,
I hope this will assist you into a beautiful world of miniatures. John Yoshio Naka, Feb 15, 1987".
I took workshops with John.
My copy of "Bonsai Techniques I" was personally signed by John, and reads:
To Adair,
I hope this will assist you into a beautiful world of miniatures. John Yoshio Naka, Feb 15, 1987".
drew33998
Masterpiece
Very cool that you were close to him. And yes I know that John Naka created that. It is one of my North American bonsai.
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