Free junipers, now what?!

[Japonicus]

I have one (pfitzer I'm pretty sure) I collected over 10 years ago in ground next to my porch.
Probably half way between these in size, and good dead wood on the trunk
(or at least it used to have). I'm allergic to this one and you're welcome to dig it
at a more opportune time if you like LOL. Long boat ride though.
I get a rash when I reach into this one

11/2008

 

[Japonicus]

~11yrs later Looks like a grafter for somebody...
I wish you luck on both of yours @Wires_Guy_wires. Definitely keep us updated on these.
I love the foliage, it hates me though, so it's a mutual agreement, I leave it alone and it leaves me alone.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

Thanks for the replies guys!
@leatherback I might want to trade some, so keep me posted! Thanks for the offer!

As for being allergic to pfizer junipers.. It's not an allergy, it's normal body function. The pfizer (or 'media') is a hybrid containing juniperus sabina, the savin juniper. And chinensis. The savin juniper is poisonous to humans.
One of the toxins is even named after the type itself, it's called Sabinol.
Nitrile gloves are the appropriate answer.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

None of the cuttings made it.

In the largest specimen of these frontyard collected junipers, I found apple cedar rust and wood worms. To make things worse I've been keeping it too wet. Too much bark in the mixture for the container to dry in between rainy days (and we get very few of those lately). Lots of dead foliage, brown tips, brown interior foliage. But that's part of the game. Make mistakes, learn from them. At least I'll have a piece of interesting deadwood if it all fails.
I drilled fifty to sixty extra holes in the grow boxes sides to get some more air in the soil, and the tree's health stopped declining.

The smaller specimen is doing great though, it lost a few interior branches but that's about it.

I'll try to update this thread with some pictures later this week.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

Ready for some horror?






Here are some pictures. The bottom one is going to make it. The upper one is still on the edge, but after adding the extra drainage holes and after fixing some air pockets, it seems to have stopped declining.

Things I've learned by making mistakes:
- Tip blight occurs when you drown a juniper. It doesn't seem to happen in a juniper coming from the same clump in better soil.
- Apple cedar rust affects a tree way less if the soil is well draining; the drowned one had giant fruiting bodies, the healthier one just had the stuff living underneath the bark but not fruiting and therefore not spreading.
- Interior foliage goes first, then entire branches.
- Lime sulphur doesn't scare wood worms. And they eat through chewing gum (tried to suffocate them by covering the holes).
- It can take months before a juniper shows actual decline. These were dug out in mid winter, but only since a month or so it has been declining. The soil conditions sucked from the start.
- A juniper can be dying and actively growing at the same time.
- Too much bark = too much trouble.


Next spring I'm going to repot them both, or maybe this fall depending on how much rain we get. I have to admit that they're in the wrong type of soil, I knew this and now I have to take another risk to get them back to actual good health.
Less soil might actually be better since it dries faster, better aeration and easier to adjust. And it would save me a lot of back trouble; these boxes weigh as much as I do.
I could keep them in these boxes and keep trying to adjust the conditions, but the mix is just awful.

I'm quite happy that they aren't dead, yet. But no hard feelings if either one succumbs. I'm learning new things! That's what matters.

 

[Shibui]

- It can take months before a juniper shows actual decline.

I think many juniper collectors will agree with this. Everything looks great until summer then decline because no new roots have grown. When new growth continues in summer I am cautiously optimistic with transplanted junipers.

- A juniper can be dying and actively growing at the same time.

Many trees make use of the energy stores in trunk, foliage and remaining roots to make a last ditch effort at survival or reproduction but if new roots don't form death is inevitable.

The soil conditions sucked from the start.

Some collectors still advocate retaining as much field soil as possible when collecting trees. Maybe they have special conditions to maintain field soil in pots but I have found that garden soil in pots is bad news and have far better results when field soil is shaken off the roots and the collected trees potted straight into the mix I know works well in pots.

Best of luck with those trees. Usually by this time the worst is past I don't hold out much hope for the first one.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

There are plenty of roots to go by and most garden soil was removed initially.
The main issue is that for the healthy one, I used a coarse mix with 2-4mm sized pumice, lava rock and clay pellets and bark, which is working fine. For the poor one I used a mix of bark and 1mm lava rock. So it's basically sand and compost by now, 6 months later. Great for shohin sized trees and as a top dressing since the lava rock is so heavy. But as a main soil component it just sucks.

Seeing how fast the decline previously went and how that seems to have stalled within a week, I think it might have a chance. But I'm not getting my hopes up either way.

 

[leatherback]

1mm lava rock

This stuff does not drain. At. All. I would ensure your pot never gets water, including rain, unless you decide it needs water.

 

[wireme]

Ready for some horror?

View attachment 247580View attachment 247581


View attachment 247582

Here are some pictures. The bottom one is going to make it. The upper one is still on the edge, but after adding the extra drainage holes and after fixing some air pockets, it seems to have stopped declining.

Things I've learned by making mistakes:
- Tip blight occurs when you drown a juniper. It doesn't seem to happen in a juniper coming from the same clump in better soil.
- Apple cedar rust affects a tree way less if the soil is well draining; the drowned one had giant fruiting bodies, the healthier one just had the stuff living underneath the bark but not fruiting and therefore not spreading.
- Interior foliage goes first, then entire branches.
- Lime sulphur doesn't scare wood worms. And they eat through chewing gum (tried to suffocate them by covering the holes).
- It can take months before a juniper shows actual decline. These were dug out in mid winter, but only since a month or so it has been declining. The soil conditions sucked from the start.
- A juniper can be dying and actively growing at the same time.
- Too much bark = too much trouble.


Next spring I'm going to repot them both, or maybe this fall depending on how much rain we get. I have to admit that they're in the wrong type of soil, I knew this and now I have to take another risk to get them back to actual good health.
Less soil might actually be better since it dries faster, better aeration and easier to adjust. And it would save me a lot of back trouble; these boxes weigh as much as I do.
I could keep them in these boxes and keep trying to adjust the conditions, but the mix is just awful.

I'm quite happy that they aren't dead, yet. But no hard feelings if either one succumbs. I'm learning new things! That's what matters.

I agree with your assessments, the bottom one look like it will make it, there’s hope for the other two but only time will tell. I’m curious what you mean by too much bark =too much trouble?

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

Fresh growth in both of them!
Awesomeeeee!

The tip blight was tackled with antibiotics. Now that we have daily rains again, as opposed to a desert-like summer, it seems they've resumed their lives. Maybe I've been watering too little.

In the summer I found some specks of sawdust. Upon inspection I found that there are burrowing holes from beetle larvae.

As you can see on the right hand side, they leave pretty big tunnels. There are no common systemic insecticides for these kind of beetles in my country, because these beetles are either invasive or non-existant according to our government bodies. And if something doesn't exist, the government isn't allowing us to kill it.
I could use some advice on what kind of systemic insecticide I'm going to need to import from elsewhere. If anyone has dealt with this kind of damage, feel free to drop some advice!

 

[M. Frary]

View attachment 269484
Fresh growth in both of them!
Awesomeeeee!

The tip blight was tackled with antibiotics. Now that we have daily rains again, as opposed to a desert-like summer, it seems they've resumed their lives. Maybe I've been watering too little.

In the summer I found some specks of sawdust. Upon inspection I found that there are burrowing holes from beetle larvae.
View attachment 269485
As you can see on the right hand side, they leave pretty big tunnels. There are no common systemic insecticides for these kind of beetles in my country, because these beetles are either invasive or non-existant according to our government bodies. And if something doesn't exist, the government isn't allowing us to kill it.
I could use some advice on what kind of systemic insecticide I'm going to need to import from elsewhere. If anyone has dealt with this kind of damage, feel free to drop some advice!

You can douse the trunks with Sevin.

 

[KiwiPlantGuy]

View attachment 269484
Fresh growth in both of them!
Awesomeeeee!

The tip blight was tackled with antibiotics. Now that we have daily rains again, as opposed to a desert-like summer, it seems they've resumed their lives. Maybe I've been watering too little.

In the summer I found some specks of sawdust. Upon inspection I found that there are burrowing holes from beetle larvae.
View attachment 269485
As you can see on the right hand side, they leave pretty big tunnels. There are no common systemic insecticides for these kind of beetles in my country, because these beetles are either invasive or non-existant according to our government bodies. And if something doesn't exist, the government isn't allowing us to kill it.
I could use some advice on what kind of systemic insecticide I'm going to need to import from elsewhere. If anyone has dealt with this kind of damage, feel free to drop some advice!

Hi,
You could try Neem as it is systemic I think?
Charles

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

Hi,
You could try Neem as it is systemic I think?
Charles

Neem is not a systemic unfortunately. The azadirachtin is not taken up by plants as far as I know. I need something that is readily absorbed, since the larvae burrow under the bark and stay safe for most topical treatments.
Sevin seems to be the same type of stuff; a contact insecticide.
Neem oil and most readily available insecticides haven't stopped new critters from burrowing new tunnels, so I want to go with systemics for a year. We've had a very dry summer and this led to a major bloom of native and invasive beetles. I'm fine with a little damage, adds to the character.. But total loss of a tree is something I'd like to prevent.
I tried manual removal too, but these larvae burrow in zigzag tunnels, so I have to peel at least parts of live tissue to find the direction they went.

 

[KiwiPlantGuy]

Neem is not a systemic unfortunately. The azadirachtin is not taken up by plants as far as I know. I need something that is readily absorbed, since the larvae burrow under the bark and stay safe for most topical treatments.
Sevin seems to be the same type of stuff; a contact insecticide.
Neem oil and most readily available insecticides haven't stopped new critters from burrowing new tunnels, so I want to go with systemics for a year. We've had a very dry summer and this led to a major bloom of native and invasive beetles. I'm fine with a little damage, adds to the character.. But total loss of a tree is something I'd like to prevent.
I tried manual removal too, but these larvae burrow in zigzag tunnels, so I have to peel at least parts of live tissue to find the direction they went.

Hi again,
You could try this as either foliage or root uptake.
Otherwise, I will rack my brains even more lol,
Charles

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

Hi again,
You could try this as either foliage or root uptake. View attachment 269538
Otherwise, I will rack my brains even more lol,
Charles

Thanks for the extensive work Charles. I thought imidacloprid was a strict a miticide, but it seems that it can be used to kill various bark beetles as well!
I found 'Bayer bioadvanced 12 months' too, especially the granulated form looks useful.
Reading the datasheets, I can imagine why the stuff is banned here.
Banned doesn't mean we can't get it though..

I'll see what I can come up with!

 

[Underdog]

I've had good luck with this.

 

[River's Edge]

Thanks for the extensive work Charles. I thought imidacloprid was a strict a miticide, but it seems that it can be used to kill various bark beetles as well!
I found 'Bayer bioadvanced 12 months' too, especially the granulated form looks useful.
Reading the datasheets, I can imagine why the stuff is banned here.
Banned doesn't mean we can't get it though..

I'll see what I can come up with!

I have used the Bayer product with success on Pines and Junipers. Both in Bonsai and for some of my landscape trees. Works well if you are able to obtain the product.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

One juniper of the two has been doing great, no more loss of foliage and it has been putting out growth the entire winter - no frosts yet. The other one wasn't doing well, the soil contained a lot of organic beech flakes and that caused the tree to never really go forward. It did grow, but it also kept losing older foliage.
People tend to learn a lot from mistakes, so I decided to take a risk and repot them both to get the old garden soil out. Don't do that at home kids. Wait another year!
The one that was doing great has put out a tonne of roots, but because the boxes are so deep I decided it was better to decrease the height by replacing a few boards before the tree went back in the box. I also changed the planting angle a little.
The one that was ailing had very little root growth and the soil was a complete white blotch of fungus. Adding that much beech flakes to the soil was a bad idea. It was basically one cake and it came out of the box as such, held together by fungus and not by roots. The signs of over watering were all there, even though I haven't watered this tree since november 2019. I wouldn't have touched this one if the soil wasn't so terrible. But knowing that fungi breathe, and seeing how much was in there, I can imagine the soil getting anaerobic simply because +/- 15kg of fungus consumes a lot of oxygen when it's breaking down wood. It also breaks your back when you try to lift it. It also generates quite some heat in the summer, and add that all together and there's a perfect mix for a tree to not go forward.

Five hours later, they're back in their boxes, secured and ready to start a new year.




No more beech flakes this time. Adequate drainage and a lot of air.
From what I've seen with junipers, I expect them to not be bothered by my treatment a whole lot. It's a huge improvement of soil conditions and I didn't remove anything except for the soil and some dead parts. They can breathe freely now. Still, I'm not getting my hopes up until there are actual signs of good health and powerful growth. This winter growth is fun and all, but I'd like to see what happens during spring. No emotional bonding until then.

Lots of work to be done still. But first it's time to get that growth. Looking back I should've bought more soil before I dug them up from someones front yard, instead of making a terrible soil blend to fill the gaps on the fly. Preparation is key. So is timing, I dug these up during a frosty period and I was surprised that they even survived.

 

[leatherback]

Looking great, both of them. I am not too worried. They have lived for most of a year now. Spring is -by all signs- aroung the corner and I would be surprised if you do not get both of them to grow.
Nice job!

 

[Ruben Bouwmeester]

Nice job, if you working a tree it better too clean it first. Remove all the dead or almost dead branches, clean the trunk, find life lines, make jin/ shari. After that start wiring/ bending.