Freshly Repotted White Pine

october

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Hello all,
I recently started repotting some of my trees. This is a Japanese White Pine I picked up last season. I repotted it from a plastic pot into this slightly large for the tree pot. I did not want to cram the tree in anything smaller for it's first bonsai pot. I have not done any work to this tree so far. However, I did give it a slightly different planting angle. When it aclimates, I will probably clean up the base. The tree is about 12 inches tall with a 2 1/2 - 3 inch base. Comments welcome :)

Rob
 

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october

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Thanks Si and HotA... It's was good to get this one out of winter storage and give it some fresh air, sun and a good repot..
 

tmmason10

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Have you done any work to this Pine? I have been pondering getting one because I have seen some great examples on this site, including this one.
 

tmmason10

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Actually, I did some clean up and wiring on it a couple of months back.. Here is the pic...

Rob
Looks good Rob. Looked through rows and rows of these last week this looks to be one of the nicer trunks, I really like it.
 

october

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yes,, It is white pine grafted on to black. It is a very good graft.
 

Alex DeRuiter

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From what I can see in the pictures it does look like a good graft, but my eye isn't really trained. lol -- One thing I don't like about black to white pines is the difference in bark, but will the grafts eventually develop that bark?

That's not to say it isn't a beautiful tree, of course! Sorry if that sounded like a negative criticism...this tree puts all of mine to shame. ;)
 

tmmason10

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From what I can see in the pictures it does look like a good graft, but my eye isn't really trained. lol -- One thing I don't like about black to white pines is the difference in bark, but will the grafts eventually develop that bark?

That's not to say it isn't a beautiful tree, of course! Sorry if that sounded like a negative criticism...this tree puts all of mine to shame. ;)
The bark of the black pine I don't believe changes the white pine bark. There will be a difference.
 

Alex DeRuiter

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Yes, I understand this. I was wondering if the bark of the grafts will eventually look similar to that of the stock -- if the transition will become more subtle, or if there will always be a clear distinction between the two.
 

Brian Van Fleet

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The bark of the black pine I don't believe changes the white pine bark. There will be a difference.
That is correct, but Rob's appears to be grafted high-enough up into the foliage that the viewer won't see the transition. Here is a site by a grafter/grower in Japan that is a pretty good read....
 

Brian Van Fleet

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Yes, I understand this. I was wondering if the bark of the grafts will eventually look similar to that of the stock -- if the transition will become more subtle, or if there will always be a clear distinction between the two.
Some improve, some get worse. If you are lucky (or pick well) the graft is smooth in transition...no bulge, but bark doesn't match. If not, the two grow at different rates and the transition isn't smooth. 2 examples:
Decent, but you can see the change in bark about 8" up (from plates to scales): http://bonsainut.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=14031&d=1292450446

Grafts clearly growing at different rates: http://bonsai.shikoku-np.co.jp/en/shugi/2009/02/post-5.html (2nd tree down)
 

JudyB

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I have a grafted JWP, and the graft though good, is not as unobtrusive as this one. Good choice, and a nice styling. Do you have a current pic?
 

Alex DeRuiter

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That is correct, but Rob's appears to be grafted high-enough up into the foliage that the viewer won't see the transition. Here is a site by a grafter/grower in Japan that is a pretty good read....
Some improve, some get worse. If you are lucky (or pick well) the graft is smooth in transition...no bulge, but bark doesn't match. If not, the two grow at different rates and the transition isn't smooth. 2 examples:
Decent, but you can see the change in bark about 8" up (from plates to scales): http://bonsainut.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=14031&d=1292450446

Grafts clearly growing at different rates: http://bonsai.shikoku-np.co.jp/en/shugi/2009/02/post-5.html (2nd tree down)
Brian, thank you so much for the links and the input. You're right about the graft being high enough to be hidden by the canopy. This being the case, that first branch is an entirely different graft...right?

I see what you mean about the rate of growth. Is there a reason why white pines are so often grafted onto black pines? Is it because the needles can be reduced more than black pines but black pines are hardier?
 

Brian Van Fleet

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Axxom,
On Rob's tree...having never seen it, I'm not speaking from the most authoritative position, and talking about a graft union on someone else's tree can be a little like talking about someone's kid...so hopefully Rob, you're not taking offense...it is a nice tree.

When you see a graft like this, it will likely be the result of a low fork at the graft union, the left becomes the Ici-no-eda, and the right becomes the new trunkline, and the cut (if it's not scarred over) is probably to the back.

The reason why they're grafted is simply because JBP roots promote stronger top growth, and are a little more tolerant of "normal" growing conditions. I believe JWP are native to climates similar to our bristlecone pines are here in the US. They are mostly high mountain pines, growing in confined pockets on rock faces in severe conditions. They are subjected to short growing seasons, bitter winters, and minimal rainfall, but some humidity. Most of us can't provide that environment...and if we could, the growth would be pretty minimal. Grafting on JBP gives us more flexibility on range, and the added bonus is faster growth. I don't believe it has any impact on needle length, but if it did, my suspicion would be that it would lead to longer needles rather than shorter.
 

Alex DeRuiter

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Sorry, what does Ici-no-eda mean? I can't find it anywhere on google and BabelFish (the website, not the invention from Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy) won't translate it.

I see what you're saying about the benefits of JBP growth habits and giving the JWP grafts the ability to grow faster. However, what do you mean by "flexibility on range"? Do you mean being able to grow them in a different, less harsh climate?

By the way, thank you again for explaining all of this. :)
 

october

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Ironically, the graft seems less visable in person than in the pics. The upper third portion of the tree leans towards the viewer. This sort of shades the middle portion of the tree which seems to minimize the graft.

I think I must have gone through about 150-200 white pines in the past 1 1/2 years and this one was the best in regards to taper, graft, movement and price. Price being a very key word here.

Also, this is not a large tree.. This tree is only about 12 inches.

Rob
 

tmmason10

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I think I must have gone through about 150-200 white pines in the past 1 1/2 years and this one was the best in regards to taper, graft, movement and price. Price being a very key word here.
I did this last week, there are loads of them there. I saw some pretty good ones but they had fatter trunks, and in turn were more expensive.
 
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