From Seed Division: Kanorin's "lets see what sprouts mega-thread"

[Kanorin]

I'm going to use this thread to document the seed stratification, planting, and the defense vs. birds and rodents of a dozen or so groups of seed.

After I grow them for a year, I'll choose (or nature will) a few to start heading towards forests. At that point I'll separate them into their own threads. I encourage those of you who are planting several different types of seed to do similar!

These are the seeds that I'm going to attempt to germinate

• styrax japonica (weeping)
• bald cypress
• cornus racemosa - gray dogwood
• cornus florida
• eastern redbud
• ulmus americana
• malus sp. - crabapples collected from 4 different crabs in parks my city
• Acer palmatum - collected from 2-3 different trees
• Acer ??? - An unknown maple with 3-4" star-shaped leaves, about 25 feet tall. Much bigger samaras than AP.
• Chaemicypress obtusa - Hinoki (false)cypress
• Blue rug juniper (not 100% on this ID)

 

[Kanorin]

After collecting, then mashing up crabapples last September, I soaked the seeds in water for 3-4 hours, then put them inside moist paper towels in ziplock bags in the fridge. I checked on them monthly, which consisted of tossing out any moldy ones, rinsing off the others, then put them back in fresh paper towels.

After about 100 days of cold stratifying in the fridge, I've got some starting to sprout! They sprouted in the fridge. I've got a couple from a red leaf variety and a couple from a green leaf. Put them into my windowsill propagator in some perlite / pine bark and now...we wait...again.

 

[Kanorin]

In November I collected some hinoki cypress cones from my friend's landscape tree. After letting them dry out for a week, they were easy to crack open with my fingers. After you crack them, you can just kind of bang them over a paper towel and the seeds start coming loose. I soaked them in water overnight, but very few of the seeds actually sank (I think because they are very flat and have a lot of buoyancy). I then put them in the fridge in some moist paper towels for a month to cold stratify (which I think is not required, but does increase germination rate according to Dirr and Heuser's manual).

Today I ended up sowing about 20 of these hinoki seeds to keep the crabapples company...I've got about another 100 in the fridge, which I'll wait a few weeks to sow.

 

[Kanorin]

Today I sew some more crabapples, some japanese maples, gray dogwood, flowering dogwood, bell peppers (my son really wanted to do these), and bald cypress.

Update on the first two trays
Nothings happening with the Hinokis yet (front of this tray).

Lots of crabapples coming up (back of the above tray and all of this below tray). Many from the "red leaf" parent don't look super healthy - perhaps because I didn't orient them well with the first growth down...but perhaps just due to genetics.

Note to self and to other seedling newbies: The first visible growth out of a crabapple seed (all seeds???) wants to grow down and become the roots!

 

[HorseloverFat]

Today I sew some more crabapples, some japanese maples, gray dogwood, flowering dogwood, bell peppers (my son really wanted to do these), and bald cypress.

Update on the first two trays
Nothings happening with the Hinokis yet (front of this tray).
View attachment 347935
Lots of crabapples coming up (back of the above tray and all of this below tray). Many from the "red leaf" parent don't look super healthy - perhaps because I didn't orient them well with the first growth down...but perhaps just due to genetics.

Note to self and to other seedling newbies: The first visible growth out of a crabapple seed (all seeds???) wants to grow down and become the roots!

View attachment 347936

Nice! My seedwork this year with apples and crabs is proving to be QUITE satisfying... here’s wishing you that same feeling.

 

[Kanorin]

Nice! My seedwork this year with apples and crabs is proving to be QUITE satisfying... here’s wishing you that same feeling.

Yes - it's really nice to watch something growing while the vast majority of my plant projects are 'just chillin' right now. Come on spring already!

 

[LittleDingus]

Nice!

A suggestion: I think you'd have better success with a finer media to start seedlings on. I see what look like dried root tips and curled roots on your crabs. A finer media would let them burrow a little easier. Some seeds need to lift their heads to poke through the soil and may not be strong enough to move such coarse media.

My personal experience is better results with a finer media for seedlings. By the time they are ready to pot on, the little bit of fine particle they are in won't matter for anything...no need for the big boy soil till you have big boys

If you're happy with your results...don't change your process on my account

 

[HorseloverFat]

Nice!

A suggestion: I think you'd have better success with a finer media to start seedlings on. I see what look like dried root tips and curled roots on your crabs. A finer media would let them burrow a little easier. Some seeds need to lift their heads to poke through the soil and may not be strong enough to move such coarse media.

My personal experience is better results with a finer media for seedlings. By the time they are ready to pot on, the little bit of fine particle they are in won't matter for anything...no need for the big boy soil till you have big boys

If you're happy with your results...don't change your process on my account

This is wise advice.... in that same vein, if I am starting seedlings in s deeper pot.. for a “longer haul”.. the bottom inch or so is aggregate, while the rest is a mix more specifically geared towards seedlings...... compromise.

 

[Kanorin]

Nice!

A suggestion: I think you'd have better success with a finer media to start seedlings on. I see what look like dried root tips and curled roots on your crabs. A finer media would let them burrow a little easier. Some seeds need to lift their heads to poke through the soil and may not be strong enough to move such coarse media.

My personal experience is better results with a finer media for seedlings. By the time they are ready to pot on, the little bit of fine particle they are in won't matter for anything...no need for the big boy soil till you have big boys

If you're happy with your results...don't change your process on my account

Thanks! I'll try out some finer media near the surface for round 3.

 

[Kanorin]

In November I collected some hinoki cypress cones from my friend's landscape tree. After letting them dry out for a week, they were easy to crack open with my fingers. After you crack them, you can just kind of bang them over a paper towel and the seeds start coming loose. I soaked them in water overnight, but very few of the seeds actually sank (I think because they are very flat and have a lot of buoyancy). I then put them in the fridge in some moist paper towels for a month to cold stratify (which I think is not required, but does increase germination rate according to Dirr and Heuser's manual).

Today I ended up sowing about 20 of these hinoki seeds to keep the crabapples company...I've got about another 100 in the fridge, which I'll wait a few weeks to sow.

It's been 22 days since sowing the hinoki seeds and I have 0 sprouting. I have 3 possible hypotheses as to why this might be - maybe you all can help me narrow down.

#1 The seeds are not viable. These were collected from a cross-town friend's landscape tree and a quick search tells me that hinoki's in general are capable of self-fertilization (although maybe it depends on the cultivar - there are so many!). Or maybe the cones were not fully mature. I cut open two of the tiny seeds with a very sharp knife and I think I can see an embryo in there...thoughts? They are so small that it's tough to focus on!


#2 I didn't fully hydrate the seeds. Despite soaking them overnight, none of the seeds sink. I'm not sure if it's because they are just so light and buoyant, or if this is related to issue #1. Any tips for hydrating super small, buoyant seeds?

#3 Not enough cold stratification. From what I've read, cold stratification is not necessary, but can improve %. Dirr & Heuser recommend 15-30 days to improve germination synchronization. Maybe since this tree has been growing in our climate for 30ish years, its seeds need a bit longer winter dormancy than is typical of the species. Or this could be a cultivar that needs a little bit more. I've got more seeds in the fridge to test this hypothesis.

 

[HorseloverFat]

I have no idea, as I am not knowledgeable on the species.. but i really hope you isolate the source of your troubles.

 

[Kanorin]

I sew some acer palmatum seeds collected from a local park that had been cold stratifying since October. Sew some on January 5th and some more on the 9th.

Here's how the group from Jan 5 is doing after 17 days

 

[Kanorin]

Some eastern redbuds that have been cold stratifying since late August. I sew a test group of these about 2-3 weeks ago and didn't see any of them coming up so I thought they needed longer cold strat. But 2 days ago, started to see some germination! Some seeds just take a few weeks to pop I guess!

And I have a new winner for most annoying seeds to collect: Colorado Blue Spruce. In the lower left are the tiny delicate seeds. On the right and top is all of the carnage that it took to extract them.

 

[Kanorin]

Update: My seedlings were just getting windowsill light and were looking a little leggy, so 2 weeks ago I bought a cheap LED grow lamp for some supplemental lighting. Still mainly the Acer Palmatums and crabapples, with 2-3 Eastern Redbuds starting to sprout. I've got some really interesting variation of leaf color in the crabapples (green, reddish green, almost full bronzy red) - even among a batch collected from the same mother tree.

And for those putting together forests this spring, check out my forest planting helper grid idea.

 

[HorseloverFat]

Update: My seedlings were just getting windowsill light and were looking a little leggy, so 2 weeks ago I bought a cheap LED grow lamp for some supplemental lighting. Still mainly the Acer Palmatums and crabapples, with 2-3 Eastern Redbuds starting to sprout. I've got some really interesting variation of leaf color in the crabapples (green, reddish green, almost full bronzy red) - even among a batch collected from the same mother tree.

And for those putting together forests this spring, check out my forest planting helper grid idea.
View attachment 352285

The palmatums are lookin’ good!

They want “out” though..

They are all, “outside is right there!”... if only they understood.

 

[Kanorin]

The styrax have had something like 170 days of cold stratification. I say enough! There are a few that show some signs that they want to germinate...I tossed them all in a seed tray outside - about 60 seeds. Maybe I'll get a handful this year and then the rest next year. Or more likely: The squirrels get fat.



Also collected some silver and red maple seeds this spring because I have a problem.

 

[Kanorin]

Collected some amelanchier alnifolia berries, crushed them up and threw them in some soil. Maybe they come up this year, maybe next.

 

[Kanorin]

Also, my short leaf pines that were on this slab and this rock planting all died. I shoved some red maple seeds on them because why not?

 

[Kanorin]

Lodgepole pine and ponderosa pine seeds from Rocky Mountain national park

 

[Kanorin]

Meant to attach this