Fungal Issues across the board. Any help would be great.

Hartinez

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Hey all. I feel like this is just how 2020 is going. I’ve got issues across the board. Nothing seems isolated. I’ve never had trees look this bad all at once this time of year. WTF. Any help on ANYTHING would be fruitful. I’ve moved twice. Using daconil here and there. But that’s it. Some trees still look good, but dam I’m struggling. Some of this is recent, some has been persistent. It’s really disheartening with everything else happening. Would be fully depressed if I lost half my collection.
 

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Hartinez

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Hartinez

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I wouldn’t assume you have rampaging fungus across multiple species, especially in our climate. Most of it looks more like heat stress. How’s your watering been with all the moving around?
It was not great here and there, but overall I work from home so everything stays pretty wet.
 

Hartinez

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I wouldn’t assume you have rampaging fungus across multiple species, especially in our climate. Most of it looks more like heat stress. How’s your watering been with all the moving around?
Thanks for the reply Renny. Shit sucks right now man.
 

fredman

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I've been thinking of starting a thread about fighting pathogenic fungi. It must be the most complained about...and destructive pest I regularly see on this forum.
I'm looking for answers to. Last year almost all my maples didn't even have enough energy for the second growth...after the first hedge cut, they just stood there with shriveled leaves.
To me the answer must surely lie with good/better/different horticultural practices, as apposed to applying fungicide apon fungicide.
Looking forward to the replies.
 

John P.

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I've been thinking of starting a thread about fighting pathogenic fungi. It must be the most complained about...and destructive pest I regularly see on this forum.
I'm looking for answers to. Last year almost all my maples didn't even have enough energy for the second growth...after the first hedge cut, they just stood there with shriveled leaves.
To me the answer must surely lie with good/better/different horticultural practices, as apposed to applying fungicide apon fungicide.
Looking forward to the replies.

Not sure about the weather where you are located in NZ, but I’m getting pretty close to not fighting against nature and trying to make Japanese maples work in Southern California. Tridents can look okay throughout summer, but nearly all the Japanese maples and cultivars that I have look like shit right now. Maybe Sharp’s Pygmy looks “okay”—not wonderful. All the rest look ratty. I love them—I have about 20 different cultivars ... and I love them for about a month in the spring.

I’d love to see someone in my Zone with maples that look as nice as those in cooler climates. I’ve used shade cloth, north-facing walls, pH-adjusted watering ... all to no avail.

At least a couple of mine have nearly no leaves, with fungal issues, despite a rotating regimen of antifungal sprays and systemics.

I guess this is more of a venting than advice, but maybe there’s something to be said for growing natives. Or at the minimum, zone-friendly plants/trees.
 

0soyoung

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Here’s my big desperation thread @0soyoung
I see.

I suppose your trees may all have a fungal infection now, but (again) I don't think it was the cause. It just doesn't make sense to me that one pathogen will affect the various species that you've pictured in a serious way. .

There is a timing correspondence.
They all were affected about the same time.
My reasoning is that the cause is something that affected them all at the same time, a few days before you first noted symptoms.

The common symptom that I think I see is hydraulic stress.
You think it is a universal fungal pathogen.
We could both be right.

I suggest that you see your local Ag agent and get a fungal analysis of your affected leaves. That ought to be definitive about whether it is a fungus or not and possibly even an identification of the genus/family/etc.
 

Wires_Guy_wires

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I'd like more information.
Do you own a dog? What kind of fertilizer do you use? Are your plants accessible by neighbors or close to a fence? Did you use the same sphagnum on everything, and where did you get it?
Do you treat your water with anything? If you look at the bottom of your pots in the early morning or early evening, do you notice fungus gnats or fruit flies? Are you using chopsticks, indicators, or do you keep a steady daily watering regiment?

I'm asking this because I want to rule in or out: ureum/ammonia poisoning, angry neighbors, spraying accidents, sphagnum as a source of pathogens, water related issues like chlorine overdose or a pH that is far off. Or anything that could potentially cause this.

The juniper: I've seen this, I've had this, it was related to root damage and over watering. Watering less fixed the issue in 2-3 months time. In the sense that the damage stopped progressing. Continuous over watering led to browning, then the brown and dead parts developed tip blight. The blight was a result, not a cause.

The spruce: seen this too, in my case it meant a slow and certain death. Over watering and mechanical stress was the cause in my case. I wired in the wrong season.

The broadleaves: least of your worries, affected parts seem to hit the outer rim of the foliage, probably a heat issue, mechanical damage from moving is very possible.

Pines: I have one that looks exactly the same and has been slowly degrading. Also watering related; been too dry, too hot, then too wet. First one half of the tree died, the rest slowly followed. Browning started from the base of the needles outwards, old to new foliage. No yellow discoloration in between like one would expect with fungal issues.

Before we dive deeper in this and start looking for precise causes, I can recommend you to remove some of that moss cover. Let the soil breathe some more.
Then get some 3% peroxide and add a tablespoon or two of it to your watering can. This'll hit some anearobic bacteria that might be causing issues.
 

fredman

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Then get some 3% peroxide and add a tablespoon or two of it to your watering can. This'll hit some anearobic bacteria that might be causing issues.
I've been thinking of doing that to. What stopped me is i'm unsure of what exactly I kill. I was of the opinion that it'll kill all living organisms in the pot. When you say anearobic...does it target only those?
Are pathogens mostly (or all) anearobic?
 

Wires_Guy_wires

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I've been thinking of doing that to. What stopped me is i'm unsure of what exactly I kill. I was of the opinion that it'll kill all living organisms in the pot. When you say anearobic...does it target only those?
Are pathogens mostly (or all) anearobic?
Most fungi, plants and animals have a peroxisome in their cells. The peroxisome is designed to break down certain fatty acids but cells can also use it to break down peroxide itself. Anaerobic bacteria usually don't have to deal with those kind of radical oxigens, so they don't have the genetic programming to do so. They use entirely different pathways of breaking things down.
Not all pathogens are anaerobic, some are facultative anaerobic, some strictly, some are aerobic. But if the soil has been wet for a long time, most of the strictly aerobic protectors/beneficial ones have died long ago and anaerobic (both good and bad) microbes have taken over. When fermentation or rot takes place, those microbes produce CO2 and various acids, making the soil even harder to thrive in for plants. It's a cascading process that continues unless there is ample oxygen, and/or something that reduces the amount of anaerobic microbes.
Peroxide can kill a bunch of the anaerobic ones in a single hit. This prevents them from doing more damage, as well as making the conditions less favorable to them. Yes, it'll probably kill a couple of the good guys, but also a loooot of the bad guys. Ventilating the soil by removing moss can take a couple days and usually the core of the soil is the last part to get some air, peroxide allows us to at least stop/halt some of the anaerobic processes while the soil is allowed to breathe. Like plugging a tire on the highway so you can get to a proper garage in relative safety.

When the signs on a plant don't point in a certain direction as we can see with nutrient deficiencies (chlorosis, yellowing, purple colors, patterns related to sulphur, P or K) or all of those signs at once, mixed together, the conclusion usually is that there's something going on in the soil related to watering - or a huuuuge overdose in antibiotics, but that's rare. Since Hartinez is at home all day (I thought I read that at least) I think a lack of water isn't likely.

I hope this makes sense.
 

just.wing.it

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I've had a issues with juniper tip blight and elm leaf black spot.....plus maple and oak with fungal issues that caused distorted leaves....and Needlecast on pine.

This year, I think I got the upper hand via Bonide Infuse and Bonide Mancozeb.
I used Infuse spray and granular, and Mancozeb spray.

Its not my favorite thing to do, but it seems to work.

And as already stated, it may be too much water....I think that is my problem with the juniper, at least.

Good luck buddy!

It sucks losing trees.....but we've all been there.....well....most of us.
 

fredman

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Most fungi, plants and animals have a peroxisome in their cells. The peroxisome is designed to break down certain fatty acids but cells can also use it to break down peroxide itself. Anaerobic bacteria usually don't have to deal with those kind of radical oxigens, so they don't have the genetic programming to do so. They use entirely different pathways of breaking things down.
Not all pathogens are anaerobic, some are facultative anaerobic, some strictly, some are aerobic. But if the soil has been wet for a long time, most of the strictly aerobic protectors/beneficial ones have died long ago and anaerobic (both good and bad) microbes have taken over. When fermentation or rot takes place, those microbes produce CO2 and various acids, making the soil even harder to thrive in for plants. It's a cascading process that continues unless there is ample oxygen, and/or something that reduces the amount of anaerobic microbes.
Peroxide can kill a bunch of the anaerobic ones in a single hit. This prevents them from doing more damage, as well as making the conditions less favorable to them. Yes, it'll probably kill a couple of the good guys, but also a loooot of the bad guys. Ventilating the soil by removing moss can take a couple days and usually the core of the soil is the last part to get some air, peroxide allows us to at least stop/halt some of the anaerobic processes while the soil is allowed to breathe. Like plugging a tire on the highway so you can get to a proper garage in relative safety.

When the signs on a plant don't point in a certain direction as we can see with nutrient deficiencies (chlorosis, yellowing, purple colors, patterns related to sulphur, P or K) or all of those signs at once, mixed together, the conclusion usually is that there's something going on in the soil related to watering - or a huuuuge overdose in antibiotics, but that's rare. Since Hartinez is at home all day (I thought I read that at least) I think a lack of water isn't likely.

I hope this makes sense.
Fantastic answer. That makes a lot of sense, and settles something i've been contemplating over for some time now. Thank you for that 👍
 

cmeg1

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I'd like more information.
Do you own a dog? What kind of fertilizer do you use? Are your plants accessible by neighbors or close to a fence? Did you use the same sphagnum on everything, and where did you get it?
Do you treat your water with anything? If you look at the bottom of your pots in the early morning or early evening, do you notice fungus gnats or fruit flies? Are you using chopsticks, indicators, or do you keep a steady daily watering regiment?

I'm asking this because I want to rule in or out: ureum/ammonia poisoning, angry neighbors, spraying accidents, sphagnum as a source of pathogens, water related issues like chlorine overdose or a pH that is far off. Or anything that could potentially cause this.

The juniper: I've seen this, I've had this, it was related to root damage and over watering. Watering less fixed the issue in 2-3 months time. In the sense that the damage stopped progressing. Continuous over watering led to browning, then the brown and dead parts developed tip blight. The blight was a result, not a cause.

The spruce: seen this too, in my case it meant a slow and certain death. Over watering and mechanical stress was the cause in my case. I wired in the wrong season.

The broadleaves: least of your worries, affected parts seem to hit the outer rim of the foliage, probably a heat issue, mechanical damage from moving is very possible.

Pines: I have one that looks exactly the same and has been slowly degrading. Also watering related; been too dry, too hot, then too wet. First one half of the tree died, the rest slowly followed. Browning started from the base of the needles outwards, old to new foliage. No yellow discoloration in between like one would expect with fungal issues.

Before we dive deeper in this and start looking for precise causes, I can recommend you to remove some of that moss cover. Let the soil breathe some more.
Then get some 3% peroxide and add a tablespoon or two of it to your watering can. This'll hit some anearobic bacteria that might be causing issues.
Yes,This +1
 

cmeg1

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Alot looks like fertilizer burn,can be too much or too little scenario......and also root fungus will mimic both in effect on plant appearance.Also kelp and NPK on leaves can cause this too.

need a list here:

Fertilizer
Water source
Soil conponents
Frequency of feeds
All additives and foliars
Pesticides/fungicides

this is not hard to figure out if I can get this info✌
We can figure this out and fix
 

PiñonJ

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Thanks for the reply Renny. Shit sucks right now man.
Sorry to hear it. My teacher always counsels coming back to one basic concept: balance of water and oxygen in the root environment. Even if you have pathogens, this is the single best thing to focus on. I think the majority of the trees you’ve shown have faced the same stressor and it’s not fungus. Maybe they dried out too much in one of the moves. Maybe some of them had root damage from that and now are staying too wet. You’ll need to examine each tree closely to determine its current watering needs and maybe keep all the damaged ones in partial shade to reduce stress until they’ve recovered and temperatures decrease. If you notice a pot taking a long time to dry out, prop up one end to improve drainage. Good luck!
 

Wires_Guy_wires

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Fantastic answer. That makes a lot of sense, and settles something i've been contemplating over for some time now. Thank you for that 👍
I forgot to mention the peroxidase enzyme that most aerobic organisms have too. This enzyme safely picks apart H2O2.
In bacteriology this is a valuable identifier; there's a limited group of bacteria that are able to produce peroxidase, so dipping a colony in peroxide is used to classify them in either peroxidase containing bacteria, or the ones without.
If you ever get an infection and go to a doctor, they swab and culture the bacteria and then proceed with a couple of tests like that to make sure that the antibiotics are aimed at killing the right thing.
 

Hartinez

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I'd like more information.
Do you own a dog? What kind of fertilizer do you use? Are your plants accessible by neighbors or close to a fence? Did you use the same sphagnum on everything, and where did you get it?
Do you treat your water with anything? If you look at the bottom of your pots in the early morning or early evening, do you notice fungus gnats or fruit flies? Are you using chopsticks, indicators, or do you keep a steady daily watering regiment?

I'm asking this because I want to rule in or out: ureum/ammonia poisoning, angry neighbors, spraying accidents, sphagnum as a source of pathogens, water related issues like chlorine overdose or a pH that is far off. Or anything that could potentially cause this.

The juniper: I've seen this, I've had this, it was related to root damage and over watering. Watering less fixed the issue in 2-3 months time. In the sense that the damage stopped progressing. Continuous over watering led to browning, then the brown and dead parts developed tip blight. The blight was a result, not a cause.

The spruce: seen this too, in my case it meant a slow and certain death. Over watering and mechanical stress was the cause in my case. I wired in the wrong season.

The broadleaves: least of your worries, affected parts seem to hit the outer rim of the foliage, probably a heat issue, mechanical damage from moving is very possible.

Pines: I have one that looks exactly the same and has been slowly degrading. Also watering related; been too dry, too hot, then too wet. First one half of the tree died, the rest slowly followed. Browning started from the base of the needles outwards, old to new foliage. No yellow discoloration in between like one would expect with fungal issues.

Before we dive deeper in this and start looking for precise causes, I can recommend you to remove some of that moss cover. Let the soil breathe some more.
Then get some 3% peroxide and add a tablespoon or two of it to your watering can. This'll hit some anearobic bacteria that might be causing issues.
Ok. 2 dogs, not messing with the plants though. I Fertilize with MaxSea 10-10-10 fert once a week. And I’ve had sumo cakes on for most of the season. Though they are mostly off now. I also used fish fertilizer on and off. I’ve moved twice since March, and have watered when I can but for the most part the trees have never dried out. But the time of day I water has been quite inconsistent, due to the moves, selling a house and the craziness of life at the moment. The shade tree placement has been very different in all 3 houses at this point. I removed all the sphagnum on the struggling trees this morning. It was store bought from Lowe’s, the orchid premium sphagnum moss. My neighbors are awesome people, Music teachers at public high-schools, so unless they are going on acid trips and fucking with my trees in the middle of the night, I do t think they are an issue.

I’m really wondering if my watering regimen and house moves have been the issue. I’ve been so terrified to let them dry out this year as I'm not always sure when I’d be home. watering even when the tree is clearly still wet.

this whole thread came when two of my deciduous, the Arizona Ash and Siberian Elm started browning at the tips. They are so bullet proof and have done nothing but grow and grow for years. Plus my life has been in a constant state of fluxand my inconsistencies are being reflected in my trees health. I’ve always lost 1 maybe 2 trees, but never had so many struggle at the same time.

thanks for getting back with me BTW. 👍🏻
 

Hartinez

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Sorry to hear it. My teacher always counsels coming back to one basic concept: balance of water and oxygen in the root environment. Even if you have pathogens, this is the single best thing to focus on. I think the majority of the trees you’ve shown have faced the same stressor and it’s not fungus. Maybe they dried out too much in one of the moves. Maybe some of them had root damage from that and now are staying too wet. You’ll need to examine each tree closely to determine its current watering needs and maybe keep all the damaged ones in partial shade to reduce stress until they’ve recovered and temperatures decrease. If you notice a pot taking a long time to dry out, prop up one end to improve drainage. Good luck!
Thanks Rennny. Everything your saying is in my for front. Just need to keep things happy till dormancy then start fresh next spring.
 

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