Fusing saplings

[Smoke]

Smoke, that tree you were trying to emulate looks more like a “loose broom” style tree than anything else.

I had a bunch of red maples in my front yard that looked very much like that tree. “Loose broom” is very appropriate because the branches were all very weak, and every winter the strong winds would break a number of branches. They were constantly dropping limbs and branches.

I also had a couple bloodgood Japanese maples. They did not drop their branches like the Acer rubrums did. Their growth habit was much lower, and more sprawling than the red maples.

So, not all maples have the same growth habits.

I'm not even in the same bonsai universe as you. We all appreciate different things...why my collection is in "my" backyard....

 

[bwaynef]

I've got a bunch of jmaple seedlings that were bound together. They're "one" now, but you can see what got them to where they are. For what it is, its nice enough, but won't win any shows if it ever makes it to one. Right now, its growing out to speed up disguising what's really going on. A couple years ago it was in an 8" terracotta grow pot. That was the most solid rootball I've ever encountered. I had to brutally reduce it. Its spending the next few years in an Anderson flat.

 

[coh]

I've got a bunch of jmaple seedlings that were bound together. They're "one" now, but you can see what got them to where they are. For what it is, its nice enough, but won't win any shows if it ever makes it to one.

I hear what you're saying and at the risk of opening an old can of worms...does it really matter? If you enjoy it that's what matters. Maybe someday it evolves into something that could win a show, or perhaps shows evolve to the point where it could win. Same thing with smoke's tree - it doesn't have to look like what a "standard" bonsai trident looks like, or even what a standard trident looks like in the wild. Or what an old oak looks like, etc. It just looks like an old deciduous tree (to me, like those old hornbeams that are common in Europe, though not as refined), something that I might actually see in a field somewhere. That's what I'm finding I like in bonsai, others will have different tastes and opinions.

Anyway...

 

[HorseloverFat]

If you enjoy it that's what matters.

OOH RAH!

 

[Adair M]

I'm not even in the same bonsai universe as you. We all appreciate different things...why my collection is in "my" backyard....

Sure. Your climate is vastly different than mine. Trees that inspire you are different than the trees that inspire me. That’s cool. Your oaks are different than the oaks that grow around here.

Before I started studying bonsai with Boon, I really didn’t like the deadwood junipers. We don’t have anything like them growing naturally around here. It wasn’t until I had the opportunity to actually climb into the mountains to see them for myself that I actually gained an appreciation for them.

So, I’m hoping we can still discuss bonsai. We both love our trees.

 

[Shibui]

Many species will fuse quite easily. Tridents and ficus are probably the fastest.
After lots of trials I have also decide it is quicker and easier to just grow a single trunk. You end up with the same size in the same time but have far better control over the process.
Some pitfalls with fusion: Little taper in the trunk (use a mould or form to make the lower part wider?)' Lack of branching on the fused trunk; Some seedlings die leaving gaps in the structure; Some spots do not fuse properly.

I have also seed plaited trunks. Again, most are terrible for the reasons above but occasionally one looks OK.

 

[Smoke]

Smoke, that tree you were trying to emulate looks more like a “loose broom” style tree than anything else.

Here is where you and I differ. You talk about a real tree like a bonsai, while I'm trying to make a bonsai look like a real tree...I don't feel the need to put a label on a real tree. I just want to provoke the image of a real tree, much in the same way Walter tries to do that. There is a huge difference between what Walter does and what Boon does. I don't wish to be either...I want to channel Al.

 

[Davidlpf]

Does anyone know about fusing saplings to make a larger trunk on your bonsai? I recently read about it, is it true? if so how do you do it?

I'm working on it!

2016


March 2020


August 2020

I wish I had ground to put it on, but only can use big pots to grow it, so the progress is slow but so far, so good!

The most the plants grow, the better and faster the fusion will be.

Cheers

 

[Adair M]

Here is where you and I differ. You talk about a real tree like a bonsai, while I'm trying to make a bonsai look like a real tree...I don't feel the need to put a label on a real tree. I just want to provoke the image of a real tree, much in the same way Walter tries to do that. There is a huge difference between what Walter does and what Boon does. I don't wish to be either...I want to channel Al.

Here’s where we differ, Al. I don’t see bonsai as “shrinky-dink” copies of real trees. I see bonsai as art that are inspired by images of real trees.

 

[Smoke]

Here’s where we differ, Al. I don’t see bonsai as “shrinky-dink” copies of real trees. I see bonsai as art that are inspired by images of real trees.

There ya go...

 

[Clicio]

Adair M said:
Here’s where we differ, Al.

There ya go...

Once, a long time ago, there was a movie called "Two grumpy old men".
Most interesting. And touching.

 

[Adair M]

Adair M said:
Here’s where we differ, Al.


Once, a long time ago, there was a movie called "Two grumpy old men".
Most interesting. Abd touching.

Hey, we resemble that remark! What do you expect? We’re both stuck at home, both with conditions that make us vulnerable to the latest pandemic, what else do we have to do?

 

[HorseloverFat]

Hey, we resemble that remark! What do you expect? We’re both stuck at home, both with conditions that make us vulnerable to the latest pandemic, what else do we have to do?

Being high-risk is most interesting... the quarantine evokes strange streams of emotions...

I’ve been on Dr’s orders to isolate since early march... everyone seems to handle it INDIVIDUALLY.. and different...

I did not know of your conditions...

My thoughts (from MY bubble) are with you fine gentlemen.

 

[Clicio]

Hey, we resemble that remark! What do you expect? We’re both stuck at home, both with conditions that make us vulnerable to the latest pandemic, what else do we have to do?

Argue over bonsai, of course!

 

[cdefoe]

Argue over bonsai, of course!

it does feel good to get all riled up on the internet now and then doesn't it

 

[Adair M]

it does feel good to get all riled up on the internet now and then doesn't it

Well, Al and I come at bonsai from different angles. Al likes to take material that others see little to no potential in, and transform it into a respectable bonsai.

I don’t have that kind of or patience.

My style is to work with more advanced trees as starter stock, either older bonsai that need work or starter stock that was developed for bonsai. Sometimes yamadori. So, that typically gives me a head start. (I need all the advantages I can get! Lol!!). I prefer doing all the detail work like wiring rather than “growing”.

same hobby, just different approaches.

 

[cdefoe]

i certainly wasn't indicting either of you. you've both contributed a lot to the forum for the benefit of others in posting about your experiences in bonsai - and i'm grateful for what i've learned and what i will undoubtedly continue to learn!!

but it does seem silly (and who doesn't love some silliness once in a while!!) to continue to engage with each other knowing that it plays out the same way every time - agreeing to disagree at best, gettin' nasty at worst

but again, anyone who's spent significant time on the internet knows that once in a while you get all worked up and it does get the juices flowing even if it never changed anyone's mind

alright, gonna go back to listening and reading the posts/thoughts of those who know more than i do

 

[cishepard]

I started a fusion project just for the fun of it (yes, fun). I took 50 or so long cuttings from a JM in my yard and overwintered them in vermiculte in my basement. This was in fall of 2018. I moved the whole tray outside in spring. By summer of 2019, 1/4 of them had rooted, I bundled them up with some kind of grafting wrap I had and planted in a colander.
In late spring of 2020, I wraped more of the “trunk” and left stems sticking out as I went up to serve as branches. No sign of any fusion yet., but I am hopeful that it will ultimately turn into a tree as opposed to a bundle of sticks : )

 

[0soyoung]

There is a pair of horse chestnuts about a block away. The local squirrels scoop up many of the conkers and some wind up planted in my landscape to sprout the following spring. I threaded 6 spring sprouts found in my landscape one spring through the drain hole of the bottom of an old terracotta pot. I forget exactly when I did this, but by 2017 (2+ years later) they looked like this:



They were left in an out-of-the-way corner of the garden and cut back to keep them from interfering with anything I actually cared about (I did use them to explore the somewhat unusual budding of horse chestnuts = some excessive pruning that further detracted from the underlying point of fusing trunks).

Yada, Yada, Yada, ...

I just unpotted this mess to find that these trunks had nicely fused (as expected ).




I also found that the fused trunks had broken the terracotta into several pieces and that even some of the terracotta that had defined the drainage hole remained quite tightly embedded in the 'trunk'.



Even though it is just a damn horse chestnut, the points I get from this are that it will take something like 5 years to produce a nicely fused trunk, regardless of the species and that it doesn't occur until well after growing roots above the tourniquet' (i.e., ground layering occurs) when done in this fashion. Methods with less rigid constraint of the trunks will undoubtedly take longer to fuse to the same degree.

 

[HorseloverFat]

There is a pair of horse chestnuts about a block away. The local squirrels scoop up many of the conkers and some wind up planted in my landscape to sprout the following spring. I threaded 6 spring sprouts found in my landscape one spring through the drain hole of the bottom of an old terracotta pot. I forget exactly when I did this, but by 2017 (2+ years later) they looked like this:

View attachment 426568

They were left in an out-of-the-way corner of the garden and cut back to keep them from interfering with anything I actually cared about (I did use them to explore the somewhat unusual budding of horse chestnuts = some excessive pruning that further detracted from the underlying point of fusing trunks).

Yada, Yada, Yada, ...

I just unpotted this mess to find that these trunks had nicely fused (as expected ).

View attachment 426579


I also found that the fused trunks had broken the terracotta into several pieces and that even some of the terracotta that had defined the drainage hole remained quite tightly embedded in the 'trunk'.

View attachment 426574

Even though it is just a damn horse chestnut, the points I get from this are that it will take something like 5 years to produce a nicely fused trunk, regardless of the species and that it doesn't occur until well after growing roots above the tourniquet' (i.e., ground layering occurs) when done in this fashion. Methods with less rigid constraint of the trunks will undoubtedly take longer to fuse to the same degree.

Yes!!!!!! *claps fast and hard*