Future of my Apple Seedlings

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Honestly I almost never root any trees in water, have not done so for decades. Used to, and had very low success rates except for Willow and Forsythia. So I could not tell you about the branch circled in red.

The set up of the branch through the hole for the straw in the lid is ingenious. Nice. Time will tell if this crab apple will root in water.

 

[Shibui]

I'm with the others. Your idea is great but I have always had far better rates when rooting in proper propagating media. Rooting in water can have lots of problems so is not foolproof. Keep a few in water as a trial but also put some into pots with potting soil as a backup.
That large branch is too big for a cutting but would make an ideal layer - search air layering for ideas and how to.

 

[B.uneasy]

Honestly I almost never root any trees in water, have not done so for decades. Used to, and had very low success rates except for Willow and Forsythia. So I could not tell you about the branch circled in red.

The set up of the branch through the hole for the straw in the lid is ingenious. Nice. Time will tell if this crab apple will root in water.

I've come to terms that Im probably 100% going to have no results because it is my understanding inorder to have a proper cutting, you've got to have buds in the water or under the rooting medium because they are what root out the easiest. Would a small pot of half peat moss, and half used potting soil be an ideal mix to start growing cuttings? Or would peat moss and potting soil retain to much moisture, and basically be to wet to produce any roots? Also, if I don't have rooting powder, or willow branches, is there still an alright possibility of rooting it without them in the medium?

 

[Shibui]

What mix to use will depend on your conditions and how often you water it. Peat is often used in propagating mix but potting soil should also hold enough moisture to give them a chance. Some of us try lots of different mixes before finding one that works well for us in our climate and conditions. You can only try some and see what happens. Used potting mix could introduce disease from the previous occupant. I would sanitise used soil before putting cuttings in. Plastic bag or container in the microwave for 5-10 min (depending on quantity) or simmer in an old frypan for 10-20 min to kill off any pest and disease then let it cool. Taking soil temp over 80C for a few minutes should kill most problems. Don't get caught with potting soil in the kitchen or you could also get sanitised.
Root hormones definitely help but apple is usually pretty good so you have a good chance even without it.

 

[B.uneasy]

What mix to use will depend on your conditions and how often you water it. Peat is often used in propagating mix but potting soil should also hold enough moisture to give them a chance. Some of us try lots of different mixes before finding one that works well for us in our climate and conditions. You can only try some and see what happens. Used potting mix could introduce disease from the previous occupant. I would sanitise used soil before putting cuttings in. Plastic bag or container in the microwave for 5-10 min (depending on quantity) or simmer in an old frypan for 10-20 min to kill off any pest and disease then let it cool. Taking soil temp over 80C for a few minutes should kill most problems. Don't get caught with potting soil in the kitchen or you could also get sanitised.
Root hormones definitely help but apple is usually pretty good so you have a good chance even without it.

I forgot that I still have a half bag of flourite black aquarium gravel. That should work fine as bonsai soil! And yep, Id get in alotta trouble if I was caught baking or frying soil!

 

[B.uneasy]

I love this tree from Nigel Saunders.

It"s so beautiful! I can't find to many examples of a true apple bonsai tree, just tons of crabapples! Nigel, and two other photos are the only examples I have found, does any of the community have any apple projects? If so I would love to see them

 

[B.uneasy]

Instead of cuttings, is there any good ways of propagating suckers from the plant?

 

[AlainK]

Root cuttings work very well with most Malus species.

Best taken in February, but it can work when the tree is in full leaves.

 

[B.uneasy]

Root cuttings work very well with most Malus species.

Best taken in February, but it can work when the tree is in full leaves.

How is it done? Do i try and dig the suckers up? Do they start growing feeder roots of their own?

 

[AlainK]

It's a bit late now, at least here (USDA Zone 9) where the trees are in full leaf.

Root cuttings are better taken in late February here, before bud break. But in Gettisburg, Pa, 6b, if your trees haven't leafed out, there's a good chance root cuttings will work. Just take a cut root, let it dry for 6-12 hours, plant it with 5 mm, 1/4 inch above the soil level and they're likely to push new buds. You don't even have to bother about what's the top or the bottom, if it wants to root, it will.

 

[B.uneasy]

It's a bit late now, at least here (USDA Zone 9) where the trees are in full leaf.

Root cuttings are better taken in late February here, before bud break. But in Gettisburg, Pa, 6b, if your trees haven't leafed out, there's a good chance root cuttings will work. Just take a cut root, let it dry for 6-12 hours, plant it with 5 mm, 1/4 inch above the soil level and they're likely to push new buds. You don't even have to bother about what's the top or the bottom, if it wants to root, it will.

Let it dry? That wouldn't kill it?

 

[Shibui]

Suckers will often already have roots on them by the end of winter. Just dig down and check. Even if there's just one tiny white root that is enough for it to survive. Even of there's no roots present suckers tend to root quicker and better than stem cuttings because that part of the stem was already under ground. If your tree has suckers try some out.
Just be aware that if the original tree was grafted the suckers are growing from the root stock and will be different from the top part of the grafted tree.

Root cuttings can make great bonsai. You can grow quite thick roots and they often have better bends and shapes than the stems above ground. I try to set my root cuttings right way up cause they grow a lot better. Drying the root for a few hours won't kill it, just lets the cells at the cut ends start to seal up before putting the wounded end into soil full of bugs and germs. Drying is not essential. I usually just put mine straight in. Don't bother with really skinny roots. Use roots that are thicker than a pencil up to thumb thick should be OK.

 

[B.uneasy]

Since the seedlings are only a couple months old I didn't have any wire small enough, plus didn't know how I would even wire something as small as them. I found a piece of crushed brick, and sat it on the stem of the one seedling, to put a little bit of character into its shape, and I propped it up with another rock so the leaves aren't sitting in dirt. Is this safe for the plant, and will it keep this shape after a while?

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

It will work, and it is sorta "safe".

 

[Shibui]

The shape should be permanent after a few weeks with something as thin as this. Wire is only one method that is convenient and controllable to change the shape of stems. Anything that will hold the stem in place while it sets but does not do too much damage to the bark will work.

 

[B.uneasy]

Maybe someday in 30 years this will be a show worth tree

 

[B.uneasy]

Would it be acceptable for me to wire these? Plus I have another question. How do i prevent it from growing taller, and how do I get leaves lower? I want to get branches lower so I can cut down the tree to a lower branch and keep it short, but also want to fatten it up eventually.

 

[Shibui]

You can wire any size tree. Need to be quite careful with thin trunks as the trunk tends to wrap round the wire instead of the correct wire around the trunk.
Stop it getting taller by pruning.
Get leaves lower by pruning. I think I can see some node on the trunk? It should make buds at those nodes if you cut off the top.

Quickest way to a fat trunk is to let it grow. Regularly pruned trees thicken very slowly so it will take 20 years to grow a fat trunk while pruning in a small pot.
You don't always need to cut to a lower branch. If the species will bud on older, bare wood you can just cut and wait for the new buds to grow.
Apples are good at budding after cut so you can let them grow as tall as you like. When the trunk is fat enough just cut really short and the stump will grow new buds that you can use for branches and a new top.

 

[B.uneasy]

Also, repotting these about every year, doing root work on them, etc, will this make the time they take to fruit even longer?

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Repotting every year will slow down growth. A better plan is every 2 to 5 years, you need growth to get the maturity to flower. Normal in the ground is 10 to 20 years, in a pot, regularly pruned, repotted frequently, you could end up waiting 30 years before blooming starts on a seedling. There is variation, once in a while a seedling will start blooming much younger, I've heard as little as 5 years.

With cuttings taken from a tree already blooming size or age, blooming can begin the very next year. It is just a matter of allowing the cutting to grow enough to set buds.

So the uncertain length of time to blooming is the reason people start with cuttings or air layers.