Garage Heater for Overwintering

[AboveBeyond]

I bought a indoor garage heater for wintering my bonsai year due to the harsh winters over the last couple of years which saw consistent temps in the teens and below. My garage is a good insulator but can't maintain the temperature when it reaches below 20F (and definitely not when it reaches less than 10F).

What is the ideal temperate to set the garage heater to? I'm thinking 36-38F to keep it above freezing but cool enough not to get in the 40s. Most of my trees are maples but I also have tridents, azaleas (fares the worst), chojubai quince, korean hornbeams, Japanese boxwood along with conifers (JBP and junipers but i'm not worried about these guys).

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0000AXEZV?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o08_s00

 

[jeremy_norbury]

I only turn mine on when it's below -5C/23F. A bit of freezing isn't bad. Of course I'm in 8a.

 

[coh]

I have 2 shelters, one I keep at 27-28 F and the other gets a little lower during the extreme cold spells, maybe down to 24-25 F. So far so good, no losses due to cold.

 

[Cadillactaste]

you might need to invest in a special thermostat that allows you to set it at a much lower temperature. We have such for our cold greenhouse. But, it will surely bring you much more peace of mind come when the harsh winter blows through.

 

[AboveBeyond]

you might need to invest in a special thermostat that allows you to set it at a much lower temperature. We have such for our cold greenhouse. But, it will surely bring you much more peace of mind come when the harsh winter blows through.

I just realized that I might need something like that since these heaters aren't made for maintaining low temps. What thermostat do you have to accomplish this?

 

[Cadillactaste]

I don't know what brand it is, I don't notice a brand name on it...our electrician ordered it through the Light House (electrical store) then installed it to the heater to ensure it was wire correctly. But surely you can find one. Many have thermostats that go lower than the heater setting. Possibly someone can offer more assistance in that area.

 

[Cadillactaste]

You don't want to get above freezing too much. Don Blackmond whom I got my Satsuki Azalea from...keeps his 30-32F Where he wintered it. Where I shot for 27-28F last winter until arctic air came in. Then with secondary heater...bumped it to 35F at night...with a secondary heater. Because my regular heater couldn't keep up with those arctic temps. But will be bumping my own thermostat up a tad...to try and stay in that zone Don shot for. Though...I know some say 30-35F is also a safe zone,but to watch getting above freezing to much. But watching the warmer days of winter to open windows.

 

[quietobserver]

For what it's worth i noticed last winter via thermometers i'd placed there were some big variations in my garage temps. The usual stuff, much colder by the garage door and warmer on the wall facing the house, but still stuff I usually tend to forget. Further, the concrete floors will cause temp variations as well.

 

[coh]

I just realized that I might need something like that since these heaters aren't made for maintaining low temps. What thermostat do you have to accomplish this?

I've been using this thermostat for a few years now and it has worked well. No idea how it compares cost-wise to the one Darlene posted.

http://www.amazon.com/RANCO-ETC-111...6&sr=8-1&keywords=electronic+thermostat+ranco

 

[Cadillactaste]

I've been using this thermostat for a few years now and it has worked well. No idea how it compares cost-wise to the one Darlene posted.

http://www.amazon.com/RANCO-ETC-111...6&sr=8-1&keywords=electronic+thermostat+ranco

I can't say either actually. I do know my criteria for selection was that we can lose power for a week during winter. Thus why we have a generator hooked up to the main things in the house. But that greenhouse was never wired into it. And it's maxed out in that breaker box. So I needed one that when that happens...the thermostat is set in case I'm not home when it comes back on. We have an electric heater to run out there and take a contractors extension cord from the generator to run it. So that's the plan if we run into it. But knowing that if I'm not home and the power comes on...nothing detrimental will happen and wake up my trees to soon. Thus...I chose no digital one for my own peace of mind. But some might house a battery or something. I know my helix one for the snake cage has a built in memory. Though it's wired into the generator that outlet to keep it warm no mater what.

 

[Cadillactaste]

http://www.littlegreenhouse.com/accessory/meters.shtml

I also have the top thermometer which has an alarm when temps either drop below your desired temp or above it. Has a low and high setting. Not sure if you have one...but it helped me see my electric heater needed help during the arctic cold spell...and when it's a warmer day in winter where windows need opened.

Going to get two more sensors for tropical and subtropical areas. Because it's alarm is louder than my other older thermometer. So replacing tropical one...and need one for the new subtropical area.

 

[rockm]

"What is the ideal temperate to set the garage heater to? I'm thinking 36-38F to keep it above freezing but cool enough not to get in the 40s. Most of my trees are maples but I also have tridents, azaleas (fares the worst), chojubai quince, korean hornbeams, Japanese boxwood along with conifers (JBP and junipers but i'm not worried about these guys)."

Far, far FAR too warm. You DON'T want above freezing temperatures, unless you have tropical. Everything you have listed is well capable of remaining at 25 degrees or so, provided you've let them get exposed to repeated frost and a few shallow freezes this month.

The objective of winter storage ISN'T to keep your trees warm. It is to allow them the lowest possible temp for the longest time possible. Heaters are rarely needed inside of a sheltered garage. A deep mulch covering on the floor is probably plenty.

 

[AboveBeyond]

For what it's worth i noticed last winter via thermometers i'd placed there were some big variations in my garage temps. The usual stuff, much colder by the garage door and warmer on the wall facing the house, but still stuff I usually tend to forget. Further, the concrete floors will cause temp variations as well.

Yeah, thermostats can vary. Good thing I have literally 6 from various brands in the garage. Most are within 2-3f of each other but I noticed one yesterday was 10f off. I need to throw that one out.

 

[Cadillactaste]

I was told the Satsuki Azalea I purchased from Don Blackmond...They can go into the single digits for short periods but you don’t want cold freezes that last weeks on end. So keep that in mind...than shooting for warmer temps. I'm going to shoot for what he keeps his at...like I stated...only because that is what my azalea is used to in the past. And I want success with it.

 

[Tieball]

I always believed that JBP and Junipers were best left outside. Nature is a good caretaker. And I think that the conifers need even that limited outdoor light while frozen.

Related to garage storage and heaters.
Do you water the garage stored trees during the cold months? If left outside I believe the snow provides moisture if ever needed. Inside though?
Is it best to water, let the soil freeze, and then just leave the trees alone until spring?

 

[rockm]

You don't want to get above freezing too much. Don Blackmond whom I got my Satsuki Azalea from...keeps his 30-32F Where he wintered it. Where I shot for 27-28F last winter until arctic air came in. Then with secondary heater...bumped it to 35F at night...with a secondary heater. Because my regular heater couldn't keep up with those arctic temps. But will be bumping my own thermostat up a tad...to try and stay in that zone Don shot for. Though...I know some say 30-35F is also a safe zone,but to watch getting above freezing to much. But watching the warmer days of winter to open windows.

Satsuki hardiness apparently varies widely. I sat my Shiro Ebisu import outside in a mulch pile last winter. It would have made an expensive corpse, but I wasn't going to pay to store it or make exceptional efforts to overwinter it.

It was frozen through beginning at the end of Nov. through Feb. It got to zero F four or five nights in Feb. with stiff winds. I pile snow on top when available. It kept its leaves through the winter, which shriveled up in the cold. I thought is was a goner. It more than survived. It's put out so much growth since March, I've had to work to keep it in check.

As I've done bonsai for the last 20 years, I've given up worrying about keeping plants warm over the winter. Isn't worth the trouble or money to put together heating systems. The goal is to keep them tolerably (and this can go into the low 20s, or lower periodically) cold.

If it can't live under a mulch pile against a wind break in my yard, I mostly won't put up with it. I make only one exception for a live oak that I store in a cold greenhouse that belongs to some long-time bonsai buddies.

 

[AboveBeyond]

"What is the ideal temperate to set the garage heater to? I'm thinking 36-38F to keep it above freezing but cool enough not to get in the 40s. Most of my trees are maples but I also have tridents, azaleas (fares the worst), chojubai quince, korean hornbeams, Japanese boxwood along with conifers (JBP and junipers but i'm not worried about these guys)."

Far, far FAR too warm. You DON'T want above freezing temperatures, unless you have tropical. Everything you have listed is well capable of remaining at 25 degrees or so, provided you've let them get exposed to repeated frost and a few shallow freezes this month.

The objective of winter storage ISN'T to keep your trees warm. It is to allow them the lowest possible temp for the longest time possible. Heaters are rarely needed inside of a sheltered garage. A deep mulch covering on the floor is probably plenty.

Thanks for the input. One day of exposed freezing already on Saturday at 27f! I usually let them sit outside until Thanksgiving which afterwards gets consistently below 30s. The trees would see low 30s for most of Nov and below 32f a few days.

 

[AboveBeyond]

Satsuki hardiness apparently varies widely. I sat my Shiro Ebisu outside in a mulch pile last winter. It was frozen through beginning at the end of Nov. through Feb. It got to zero F four or five nights in Feb. with stiff winds. I pile snow on top when available. It kept its leaves through the winter, which shriveled up in the cold. I thought is was a goner. It more than survived. It's put out so much growth since March, I've had to work to keep it in check.

As I've done bonsai for the last 20 years, I've given up worrying about keeping plants warm over the winter. Isn't worth the trouble or money to put together heating systems. If it can't live under a mulch pile against a wind break in my yard, I mostly won't put up with it. I make only one exception for a live oak that I store in a cold greenhouse that belongs to some long-time bonsai buddies.

I am also contemplating mulching some trees outside. I have an area that i can dig and mulch most of them (if not all). The area sits by a fence, so there shouldn't be too much wind. Perhaps I'll try mulching the conifers this winter...

As for the Azaleas, I've had the worst luck with them. One died a couple years back and this season, they lost all of their leaves. However, they made comeback and grown very well.

 

[Nybonsai12]

The majority of my trees go in the ground pots and all with a layer of mulch and burlap wind barrier, this is all species i have, conifers, deciduous and flowering. Only problem with outdoors I've ever run into is when heavy snow melts and has snapped a branch. I'd prefer to keep everything outside if I didn't worry about branches breaking from snow, but I don't want to build a covering from the trees.
I have used my unheated shed and uninsulated garage as well for some with no real ill effects(although the really dry air made me wonder about impact on a few, but I ultimately don't think it caused the demise of anything). Put some snow on top of the pots as necessary and it waters itself.

 

[rockm]

I also use a cold pit for some trees. the pit is shallow--two feet deep, but I build two foot sides from landscaping timber for it. Put trees in it on top of flat boards or bricks for drainage and cover the pots with six-eight inches of mulch.

I put an inverted "U" shaped PVC frame (that's a foot taller than the walls) in front of the pit with the ends inserted into the ground. I place flat boards over th pit, with the front edge supported by the PVC to make a lean-to. The lean-to sheds rain and minimizes snow load (unless I remove the boards to let snow in). I typically keep tridents and Japanese maples in there. Gives a bit more protection as it is below grade and uses the natural "warmth" and insulation of the surrounding earth.