Gardenia Pre-bonsai Thriving

[tree3]

I have a gardenia, I think it's the 'buttons' cultivar (it has a slightly smaller leaf than other kinds), and it's in a bowl. I plan on leaving it in this bowl because of what I've heard about them preferring to be planted on the ground means they could be sensitive to being in pots. I feel the bowl is giving it room for the roots. I too thought mine was dying when I first got it. It also had chlorosis, which is yellowing of the leaves.

I gave mine a real hard prune (before I put it in the bowl), and now it's growing back but very slowly. Although its growth is really slow, I plan on leaving it in the bowl, at least until it's become a medium-sized shrub once again. I'm not sure that these plants will even survive in bonsai pots. Do any of you keep one of these in bonsais pots? At least in the deeper ones?

 

[RobertB]

I have one that I picked up last year, it struggled the rest of the summer, all winter. In late winter I reported, treating the roots like an azeala and in mid summer it starting growing very fast! It has completely regained strength now with 2 ft long extensions and is currently blooming like crazy. Plan on repoting again this spring with plans on reducing the root ball even more. I picked up another a couple weeks ago with a 3 inch trunk base and good movement for real cheap. Plan on working that starting in spring also.

I do think and have heard, that they don't liked to be moved around much. Mine didn't start growing until it was sitting in same spot for a few months. Could have been coincidence.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Gardenia are often used for bonsai, even by traditional artists in Japan. They do well in bonsai pots. I don't know where you read that they do not do well in pots, I believe that is an incorrect statement. Gardenia like a mildly acidic soil, similar to Camellia and Azalea. If you respect this fact, they thrive in bonsai pots. I use a blend of Kanuma and Perlite or Kanuma and Pumice as my potting mix for my gardenia.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Gardenia do grow slower than trees such as Ficus or willows, but they do grow pretty well. They like at least 4 hours of direct sun, up to full sun in temperate climates, they may need afternoon shade in desert heat. I'm in Chicago area, and here Gardenia enjoy full sun. When they get sun & water they grow at a nice moderate pace.

Root disturbance, yes, if you prune roots, or repot a gardenia, they will pause in growing until they have repaired their root system. For young trees, such as yours, I would repot no more frequently than once every 2 years. For older, more refined gardenia, I would repot only when there is a reason to repot, like broken down mix, poorly draining mix, or root structure needs refinement. This is usually once every 3 to 5 years. It is not advisable to automatically repot every single year whether it needs it or not. Only repot when there is a reason to repot.

 

[coachspinks]

I had a gardenia that I dug up from my yard. It is a dwarf variety and had been used in the landscape. That was late spring 2017. I put it in a terra cotta pot and it just sat there. As the summer went on the leaves yellowed but were still flexible. It had chlororis just like you describe. I was almost ready to get rid of it this spring but I decided to give it some organic fertilizer cakes. In just a few weeks the leaves became a deep green and it has grown well all summer.

 

[tree3]

Gardenia are often used for bonsai, even by traditional artists in Japan. They do well in bonsai pots. I don't know where you read that they do not do well in pots, I believe that is an incorrect statement. Gardenia like a mildly acidic soil, similar to Camellia and Azalea. If you respect this fact, they thrive in bonsai pots. I use a blend of Kanuma and Perlite or Kanuma and Pumice as my potting mix for my gardenia.

I've seen Azaleas in deeper types of pots, not the usual shallow bonsai pots.

 

[cbroad]

Since you are in Florida, it should do well in a pot. In my area, a gardenia in a pot is a death sentence once winter comes around, unless adequate winter protection is provided. Even then, it's no guarantee it will survive. I see established gardenias in the ground die every year around here.

 

[tree3]

Since you are in Florida, it should do well in a pot. In my area, a gardenia in a pot is a death sentence once winter comes around, unless adequate winter protection is provided. Even then, it's no guarantee it will survive.

You mean in a regular deep pot? My question is whether they tolerate regular bonsai pots. I have a feeling they have to be in deeper pots such as those that Azaleas are in, such as these:
https://www.easternleaf.com/Bonsai-Tree-Flowering-Azalea-p/801490-03.htm

 

[cbroad]

You mean in a regular deep pot?

I'm just referring to any pot as opposed to in the ground. Honestly, I am biased. I don't really have a fondness for gardenias, only because they do poorly in my area. They struggle to get established and when they do make it that far, they can just seemingly die for no reason.

In your area, they should grow wonderfully and you shouldn't have my same concerns. I think if you were to keep it in a smaller pot, it would only mean more waterings, and possibly more frequent repottings. If you are wondering if they appreciate more room for roots or a more moist soil, then I don't know about that. I could see gardenias having a problem with excessive moisture due to a deeper pot or too much extra soil.

 

[tree3]

I'm just referring to any pot as opposed to in the ground. Honestly, I am biased. I don't really have a fondness for gardenias, only because they do poorly in my area. They struggle to get established and when they do make it that far, they can just seemingly die for no reason.

In your area, they should grow wonderfully and you shouldn't have my same concerns. I think if you were to keep it in a smaller pot, it would only mean more waterings, and possibly more frequent repottings. If you are wondering if they appreciate more room for roots or a more moist soil, then I don't know about that. I could see gardenias having a problem with excessive moisture due to a deeper pot or too much extra soil.

Thank you for your time!

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

In my climate, USDA zone 5b, gardenia must be treated as an outdoor in summer, inside house plant for winter, and of course, being grown in a pot is essential for this.

As to deep pots, deep terra cotta, or plastic pots as used for house plants are not necessary, nor particularly good health wise. The slightly deeper bonsai pots used for azalea are indeed good for gardenia. Very shallow bonsai pots are not good for gardenia. All but the deep cascade bonsai pots are shallower than conventional house plant pots, so the general idea is "yes they like shallower than conventional pots".

 

[tree3]

In my climate, USDA zone 5b, gardenia must be treated as an outdoor in summer, inside house plant for winter, and of course, being grown in a pot is essential for this.

As to deep pots, deep terra cotta, or plastic pots as used for house plants are not necessary, nor particularly good health wise. The slightly deeper bonsai pots used for azalea are indeed good for gardenia. Very shallow bonsai pots are not good for gardenia. All but the deep cascade bonsai pots are shallower than conventional house plant pots, so the general idea is "yes they like shallower than conventional pots".

Thanks so much for your input. It probably has a long way to go now because of the hard prune I gave it. At least it made it this far. I thought it would never survive. Thanks.

 

[Zach Smith]

It's been years since I worked with (dwarf) gardenia, but my recollection is that they are very sensitive to any number of things including root-pruning, potting, repotting, being moved from place to place, getting too dry, getting too wet, and of course being talked to harshly. It's not chlorosis. They recover from the leaf yellowing and dropping fairly quickly, and they do bloom in a pot and smell up the place so that's an awesome thing. Worth the trouble. And the dwarf varieties make nice cascades.

 

[tree3]

It's been years since I worked with (dwarf) gardenia, but my recollection is that they are very sensitive to any number of things including root-pruning, potting, repotting, being moved from place to place, getting too dry, getting too wet, and of course being talked to harshly. It's not chlorosis. They recover from the leaf yellowing and dropping fairly quickly, and they do bloom in a pot and smell up the place so that's an awesome thing. Worth the trouble. And the dwarf varieties make nice cascades.

Everything you mentioned is the same I've also heard. Have you been able to still keep one?

 

[Zach Smith]

Everything you mentioned is the same I've also heard. Have you been able to still keep one?

As I said, it's been many years since I worked with the species. The nursery stock you'll usually find is not all that great. Sometimes you can find older nursery stock with some good character. Trunk size is an issue with the dwarf varieties. I can recommend planting them out and letting them grow for four or five years, then lifting for bonsai. They build character during their time in the ground.

 

[tree3]

I have one that I picked up last year, it struggled the rest of the summer, all winter. In late winter I reported, treating the roots like an azeala and in mid summer it starting growing very fast! It has completely regained strength now with 2 ft long extensions and is currently blooming like crazy. Plan on repoting again this spring with plans on reducing the root ball even more. I picked up another a couple weeks ago with a 3 inch trunk base and good movement for real cheap. Plan on working that starting in spring also.

I do think and have heard, that they don't liked to be moved around much. Mine didn't start growing until it was sitting in same spot for a few months. Could have been coincidence.

When you say you treated the roots like an azalea's, what did you mean?

 

[RobertB]

Cutting wedges out of rootball when repotting. Do not try and bare root or remove too much roots. Cut wedges out then move / different wedges out the next repotting and so on. Keep doing this over the years, until all original soil has been replaced.

 

[tree3]

Cutting wedges out of rootball when repotting. Do not try and bare root or remove too much roots. Cut wedges out then move / different wedges out the next repotting and so on. Keep doing this over the years, until all original soil has been replaced.

Thanks for the explanation. From what I can remember, when I first got the gardenia and repotted it to the bowl, it had coiled roots that sort of spiraled downwards, like strings. I suppose that when the time comes I'll see if the rootball has become more compacted and pot bound.

 

[Melospiza]

In my climate, USDA zone 5b, gardenia must be treated as an outdoor in summer, inside house plant for winter, and of course, being grown in a pot is essential for this.

As to deep pots, deep terra cotta, or plastic pots as used for house plants are not necessary, nor particularly good health wise. The slightly deeper bonsai pots used for azalea are indeed good for gardenia. Very shallow bonsai pots are not good for gardenia. All but the deep cascade bonsai pots are shallower than conventional house plant pots, so the general idea is "yes they like shallower than conventional pots".

Any special tips on wintering gardenias and camellias in Chicago? I assume bright light and sufficient watering is enough? Does this also work for azaleas?

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Any special tips on wintering gardenias and camellias in Chicago? I assume bright light and sufficient watering is enough? Does this also work for azaleas?

For many years, in winter the gardenia spent winter in the light set up for the orchids. Then I ''tested'' putting it in the unheated well house, with no light, for the winter. The well house stays 32-40 F all winter. That worked well too. In the long run, I liked the results of wintering it with my intermediate to cool growing orchids slightly better. There it had 18 hours per day of fluorescent light, T-40 shop lights, and temps between 55 to 75 F, usually cooling into low 60's F at night. My ''light garden'' is a basement set up.

Azaleas - I winter my satsuki in the well house, to good effect. The cold dark rest does not seem to harm their spring bloom at all. I winter my ''florists azalea'' the more tropical R simsii hybrids, bred for greenhouse forcing, they get wintered with the orchids, and often end up blooming in February-March and sometimes again later after being put outside for the summer.

So that is what I actually do.