Getting rid of Nats/indoor pests

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Thank you for this…I need to get my act together with watering, but at the present time, I’m battling a fairly strong infestation.

i just tried the hydrogen peroxide method…I hope the plants are ok in the morning or that’s about a year of growth on 6 plants down the drain lol 💔
 

penumbra

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I got rid of the worste gnat problem by changing the soil and using hydrogen peroxide. There is a lot of info on this in the archives. It has been discussed several times in the past couple of years.
 

Deep Sea Diver

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That’s great to hear!

Perhaps you can post some images in a couple months to show if/how the growth was affected?

cheers
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Glaucus

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I think H2O2 is also working better than either nematodes or mosquito bits. But those latter two were completely harmless to the plants. H2O2 clearly is not completely harmless to plants, but at the concentration one ought to use them the damage seems superficial. I have a few seedlings that have a yellowish leaf, likely caused by H2O2.
But now that the seedlings are larger, I can spray the soil but spare the seedling (maybe).
But I have not done a good fair experiments. Just my observations.

I have so many trays, I am forgetting which one is which and when I treated them with H2O2.
I only get to my trays of gnat-infested seedlings during the weekends. And each weekend, some other tray has gnat flies emerging.
Not sure if I am winning the fight, but I am sure some trays that had many gnat flies two weeks ago barely had any today.
So it could be that the trays that give me trouble now are new ones. Which may mean that H2O2 can eradicate them.
But that I should water all my seedling trays even if they have no sign of gnats for several weeks to kill maybe all of them and finish them off.
 

penumbra

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Peroxide can actually be very benificial for plants. I spray a 1.5 % solution on mine about once a month. I add it to water for rooting cuttings. I use it in hydroponics. I have used it to save plants that were dying of root rot. I use it about once a month in my aquariums. I use it in an irrigation for my teeth and gums. I buy it for 90 cents a pint and never have fewer than half a dozen pints on hand.
 
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Just an update on this ongoing situation for everyone:

Peroxide administered at the suggested dilution (4:1) seems to have really leveled these little peckers 💪

The result was immediate from application to the next day and seems to continue onward into several days from treatment.

I still have a few adults present, which leads me to believe I will need to strike again soon enough to really end them, but the transformation was immediate and unquestionable. There are maybe a dozen or less adults that fly up from each plant when I agitate the soil (I make them fly and then zap them all with one of those tennis racket fly swatters to further reduce their numbers and viability) and that’s down from a much larger amount that seemed to increase exponentially by the day when left untreated.

The plants seem to be unaffected in any negative respects so far, and the soil looks fluffier and rejuvenated from the aeration. In addition, some little spots of white mold (I’m guessing mold?) that had formed on the top layer of soil were virtually wiped out as well.

As stated earlier, and as with many things, prevention is key and I’m going to work on my watering, but if you’re a rookie like me on your first grow etc and you find yourself in a situation, this is an excellent control measure.

TLDR - Barring any plant issues that come up, I am sold on this as a great way to fix an infestation issue, and even beyond that, it seems like a great occasional tool to tune up your soil and ensure it’s not harboring anything (spore or pest) that you don’t want in it.

Pics attached below (the plants are asleep, so they’re not so magnificent atm, BUT they ARE healthy!)
 

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Deep Sea Diver

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Well done!

For daily spraying one might switch to a dose of 1 tbsp 3% H2O2 in a qt of water.

cheers
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penumbra

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I almost always use a rate of peroxide to water greater than what others are using here. I have found that some of the rates discussed here to be ineffectual. I have been using it for many years and have not to date seen any damage that could be attributed to overuse of peroxide or using too strong a solution. I find very weak solutions like some of those suggested, to be little more than a placebo.
But to each his own. If it works for you, that is fine.
 

Deep Sea Diver

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Thanks @penumbra

That's a real interesting point that I’ve often wondered about in the past three years while raising many cuttings (over 400 this year) and prebonsai….these are mostly in peat based media.

Haven’t had an issue with the actual bonsai yet, luckily. However these trees are all in a kanuma based media.

A couple follow on questions please... .

What was the specific issue with your trees… just fungus gnats caused by overwatering/fungus growing or something else?

From actual experience a tbsp of 3% H2O2 in 1qt of water used daily as a soil/leaf spray is a good fungal preventative on my azalea cuttings growing out over the past three winters, also on prebonsai and bonsai. The rationale for this being fungus gnats lay eggs where fungus is present, so knocking down fungus prevents this from occurring.

Also 3% H2O2 was successfully used full strength on infected azaleas after bare rooting to knock down root rot. Lucky on that.

Are any other strengths uses besides the 1.5% you mentioned above? Is this treatment a preventative, or as a treatment for an actual larval infection?

Finally what media are you using?

So sorry about all the questions…. Inquiring minds…!

cheers
DSD sends
 

Glaucus

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I have a 30% solution. I can try and see if 30% kills. I had a tiny number of seedlings that got a yellow leaf.

My concern is if the eggs and larva get killed. The flies do not freak out when hit with diluted H2O2.
I eyeball my dilution but I clearly hear popping noises from any dilution I make after adding it to the plants.

More mature trees or more rubust seedlings like pine or chili pepper/bell pepper would have even less issues.
 

penumbra

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Thanks @penumbra

That's a real interesting point that I’ve often wondered about in the past three years while raising many cuttings (over 400 this year) and prebonsai….these are mostly in peat based media.

Haven’t had an issue with the actual bonsai yet, luckily. However these trees are all in a kanuma based media.

A couple follow on questions please... .

What was the specific issue with your trees… just fungus gnats caused by overwatering/fungus growing or something else?

From actual experience a tbsp of 3% H2O2 in 1qt of water used daily as a soil/leaf spray is a good fungal preventative on my azalea cuttings growing out over the past three winters, also on prebonsai and bonsai. The rationale for this being fungus gnats lay eggs where fungus is present, so knocking down fungus prevents this from occurring.

Also 3% H2O2 was successfully used full strength on infected azaleas after bare rooting to knock down root rot. Lucky on that.

Are any other strengths uses besides the 1.5% you mentioned above? Is this treatment a preventative, or as a treatment for an actual larval infection?

Finally what media are you using?

So sorry about all the questions…. Inquiring minds…!

cheers
DSD sends
All of the following uses were with the 3% solution available at most stores. I have used H2O2 antiseptically like others for years. Also for many years I would use in occasionally in both freshwater and saltwater aquariums that were either a little cloudy or had an odor I could attribute to high organic levels. Also used it when fish were stressed, as in gasping for air, and in the drip method of acclimating new fish to an aquarium. I do still use it for aquariums but infrequently because my tanks are healthy and have few problems. Although I had monocelluler algae that turned a marine tank green a few months ago. Peroxide, about an ounce per 10 gallons cleaned it right up.
About 12 years ago I used it in mushroom cultivation to destroy competing mushroom and fungal spores. I have long used about 20% (of the 3% solution) to 80% water in rooting cuttings in water, and hydroponics. I use a soak or wash of 1.5% solution, half H2O2 & half H2O, when I store cuttings or seeds(stratify) in the fridge. This is about the same strength I use to spay azaleas, junipers etc. I have actually spayed about a 1% to 1.5% solution on just about every plant I have, inside or out. Even though I have literally hundred of plants, seedlings and cuttings inside, I have not seen a fungus gnat in a couple months. The usually come inside with the plants. Back in September I had a Burt Davaii ficus outside that had developed root rot and the soil was actually moving because of the little maggots. The surface had a shiny sticky looking crap on it. I pulled it out of the pot (which went in the dishwasher) cut off most of the lower half of the roots, and washed it completely bare with a 1.5% solution and then soaked it in a 3% solution for 5 minutes. That was in September, this is the plant now.IMG_6267 (1).JPG

I haven't sprayed in at least 6 to 8 weeks, and haven't seen a fungus gnat, but I am do for a 1.5% spraying now.
 

Deep Sea Diver

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Great information @penumbra !

It would be a good experiment to determine what concentration kills the gnats once these are present. @Glaucus

Seedlings and cuttings would be good test subjects.

Since flies will exist repeat applications will be needed about 3 times at 5 day intervals as the complete life cycle at 75 degrees is 17 days and adults live for about 8 days.

Here's a nice two minute video on the fungus gnat life cycle.

My guess is that the concentration would need to be low enough not to damage the seedlings, but high enough to kill the fungus eggs and larval stages. Likely this treatment will nuke all the organisms in the rhizosphere. So the plants will need to be treated gingerly for about a month. Repeated overwatering will likely repeat the fungus gnat cycle.... So a lower concentration preventative who be needed.

My bet is the effective kill concentration would be 3% or less, yet that's just a guess.

btw Kathy Shaner recommends using 1 tbsp 3% H2O2 in about 40 oz for soil and foliage spray every two weeks during spring and once a month thereafter.

Cheers
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penumbra

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I have a 30% solution. I can try and see if 30% kills. I had a tiny number of seedlings that got a yellow leaf.

My concern is if the eggs and larva get killed. The flies do not freak out when hit with diluted H2O2.
I eyeball my dilution but I clearly hear popping noises from any dilution I make after adding it to the plants.

More mature trees or more rubust seedlings like pine or chili pepper/bell pepper would have even less issues.
Peroxide is sold to the general public at 3% and occasionally 6%. The stronger solutions are for industrial use. I don't believe 100% can exit in a pure state but high percentage formulas have been (maybe still are) used in formulating rocket fuels. These super peroxides are violently explosive if rapidly heated.
Frankly, I have never seen 30% though I know it is used as a violent oxidizer and a bleach in industry.
If that is what you have, learn to use it wisely.
 

penumbra

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BTW, I use peroxide 1.5% to 2% in my irrigator for my teeth. The tonic I used to use was really expensive but now I spend mere pennies and my hygienist says my gums are better than ever. When you sit in a chair at my dentist's office, you are required to rinse your mouth with a 1% solution for a full minute. There are also treatments, not available in the country, where H2O2 is injected into cancer cells to kill the cancer. Somewhere in the house I have a small book about various medical uses of peroxide, but I am not sure what I did with it.
Like salt, baking soda and a few other priceless old remedies, H2O2 is a bit of a miracle if used correctly.
 

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Another use for H202: I have two dear box turtles that live in my dining room. They are in a good sized reptile tank with "forest floor" bedding. I have found that boxies are inseparable from springtails, and that springtails can build quite a population in an indoor environment. They don't bother me, can't survive outside of the tank. But my husband finds them horrifying. H202 is the only thing I have found so far that I feel confident about using with the boxies in the tank. I take all the parts outside for a good cleaning a couple of times each summer, but have struggled with controlling the springtail population over the long cold seasons. I have been pouring a bit of H202 3% on places where springtails cluster (under the water dish, under the food dish) and it seems to be helping. 32 oz. is $1.19 here.
 

Glaucus

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Peroxide is sold to the general public at 3% and occasionally 6%. The stronger solutions are for industrial use. I don't believe 100% can exit in a pure state but high percentage formulas have been (maybe still are) used in formulating rocket fuels. These super peroxides are violently explosive if rapidly heated.
Frankly, I have never seen 30% though I know it is used as a violent oxidizer and a bleach in industry.
If that is what you have, learn to use it wisely.

True here in Europe as well. Yes, the 30% solution should be handled with care. It may blind you if you spill it into your eye. And the decomposition, as you stated.
I have a chemistry degree so I should know what I am doing. I'd get nervous if I had to prepare and use 'piranha solution' again for my experiments.
There you take the 30% H2O2, and add concentrated sulfuric acid (well actually by adding it the other way around or you are in trouble already).
In the end, you get some respect for some chemicals. And others that you should respect but you don't are the scary ones. At least acids immediately burn your skin so you know of the danger, would you touch the edge of a bottle or spill a small drop. Hydroxides are already tricky in that you don't feel it burn. And then there is the stuff that poisons you long-term if you don't handle it correctly.
Which is why I got in the safer side of chemistry.
In the end, most accidents here happen with needles or broken glass.

I dilute my 30% H2O2 solution with a factor of 10 or 20. And it still seems potent enough. Also note that older bottles bought in a store may be lower than the 3% advertised.

I do get a bit confused about things like '1 tbsp 3% H2O2 in about 40 oz'. What's that? :)
I thought you used 3% solution to spray your plants with. Lemme calculate. 1 tablespoon as a volume unit is 15ml. 1 oz is 29.6ml. So 15 ml of 3% H2O2 added to 1183ml. So total volume 1198 ml. Then the dilution factor is about 80x. So you actually use 0.04% (w/v) of H2O2 in water? Phew.
Well no wonder me inaccurately diluting my 30% solution to about 1% or so did damage a seedling.
Nur did it immediately kill any gnat or gnat larvae. I had no control experiment but pretty sure there was an effect.
I only use it once a week if I see a lot of gnats emerging.

In the end this is just a form of bleach. So it will burn everything indiscriminately. But indeed the unprotected animal cells will be harmed more than plants with cellulose-walled cells.

Still, I can try and splash the 30% on some seedlings and see how they burn. Pretty sure it will damage, maybe kill.

I kinda don't really don't want to do the experiment to see which concentration of H2O2 kills the gnats. But maybe it will be smart.
Might be something I could try over Christmas. But to do it properly, I need to be able to control the initial population somewhat. And then be able to count/guesstimate the final population.
I don't want to grow and breed gnats near my seedlings, for obvious reasons.
 
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penumbra

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I have no use for anything over the standard store bought 3%. I would also dilute your stuff 10 to 20 times.
30% is a kinda of entropy fluid. ;)
 

Glaucus

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I have no need for a 30% solution either. It was just most convenient to get a bottle like that. I recommend people to get a 3% H2O2 solution instead of anything more concentrated.
 
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Deep Sea Diver

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It is a very small how many millimeters in an average human body
 
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