Giant Azalea!!! I am thinking Air Layering?!?!

[bjones88]

I have this huge Azalea in my back yard. I have thought that past 3 years living here to try an air layer on this. It has tons of massive trunks in there. Obviously you can't see them because this giant is in full bloom. This Azalea had to have been planted shortly after my house was built in the 50s. I think it is so huge due to being on the north side of the house.

Has anyone had any luck air layering an Azalea. I have been hesitant to try it. I have my eye on a couple of lower branches that are very interesting and have tons of movement. Most don't have one straight section between branches.

In the one picture with the fence off to the right... that is a 6' privacy fence for size reference. It is around 6' wide and 4' tall.

 

[Vin]

Sorry, but that's no where near huge. I think you might be surprised at what you'll find below the soil. I dug one up three times as big as yours the other day and about 4 inches below the soil line is a very nice trunk. There are roots above the trunk and roots below it with a bare trunk in the middle. Maybe you can get some photos of the soil line area and/or where you would layer it?

 

[Paulsur]

yeah, if that is a single trunk, then that whole thing is your bonsai. get in they and scrape away the grass and debris and show us the nebari.

 

[Poink88]

Check this thread.
http://bonsainut.com/forums/showthread.php?13989-When-to-repot-Azalea-(George-L-Tabor-NOT-satsuki)

The tree was about 6 feet high x 8 feet wide. When I checked it initially, it is multiple small trunks from the ground but while digging, I learned that the actual base is about 8" below the current soil level and most of the trunks are actually just branches. The rest is what you will see in the pics in the link.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Definitely get in there and rake back the grass and soil to get a look at the base once things melt and thaw. I can't think an air layer is too difficult. But as you expose the trunk, you might find you're better off pruning away what doesn't contribute to a good trunk line and starting with one bigger, better azalea now, vs. several smaller, mediocre azaleas next year.

 

[bjones88]

I was actually wanting to be able to keep the Azalea there just air layer some of the branches near the bottom and back so I will not make big gaping holes in it.

I will get some more pictures up shortly... I will take some when i let the dogs out again and post them. Right now is the time to get them since it has not come out of dormancy yet. We are still seeing below normal temps below freezing here.

 

[Poink88]

In that case, I am not too sure how well they airlayer. Judging on what I collected with those branches buried 8" below the soil and did not root...it may be difficult. Just a hunch.

According to this...it can be airlayered.
http://azaleas.org/index.pl/azpropagate.html

 

[Ris]

Awesome color flowers coral/pink looks like can't wait to see underneath.

 

[bjones88]

Here are some pictures of the trunk. As you can see we still have snow on the ground in places.

 

[Poink88]

Looks promising.

How about grafting a branch or 2...then once you severed it, collect the tree and plant the airlayered plant as replacement?

 

[bjones88]

I have thought about taking the nicest few trunks to start with thoses then leave the rest.

Keeping in mind i don't want to leave the appearence in too bad of shape. Then again it will grow back and fill back in. So i guess i can leave it lop sided if need be.

 

[edprocoat]

Looks promising.

How about grafting a branch or 2...then once you severed it, collect the tree and plant the airlayered plant as replacement?

Dario, you beat me to it ! Proof that deranged minds think alike.

ed

 

[Poink88]

Dario, you beat me to it ! Proof that deranged minds think alike.

We've been around each other too long. LOL Or is it our natural "criminal mind"?

 

[armetisius]

re: Giant Azalea

Finally something I can answer.
NO; on any trunk larger than your thumb you will not have the time for roots to strike, detach it, and get it established in your area before cold is back in town. So, unless the last step will take place in a greenhouse, you will not get a good rooted plant in one season except on smaller limbs. You may luck up and get one but it will be against the odds. If I am not terribly wrong that azalea is a variety known as "Coral Bells" and it is just about as far north as it will survive. How about a ground layering?
When things finish thawing out this year get down in there and make your tree. Find the branch you want; dig around the bottom of THAT one and slowly work your way back into the soil. Be careful of any little roots you find--they will help this too. When you are well into the ground dig a slip trench away from that area and down so water won't build up there in rainy weather; you have got to be certain it drains away from the plant. When the rooting starts, if it gets overly wet the baby roots will die and you will play hell getting new ones there again. Take a wire [copper or stainless steel. Azalea roots hate aluminum in their soil] and, below any roots already there, put your tourniquet in place. DO NOT GIRDLE THIS TRUNK the tourniquet will be enough. I use a very sharp fresh razor blade to lightly score the bark just above my tourniquets but that will be up to you. You just want a light scratch thru in a few spots around the trunk. Just enough to convince the plant's system that that trunk has been "injured" and needs new roots. Use soil that drains well with some organic matter in it and bury all this back in the ground. Light pruning is going to stimulate growth and in turn roots. Even go ahead and "pre-shape" your tree; it won't hurt it. Next year, after flowering, you should be able to detach it and have an entire season to establish it before cold season. Much better for the plant and not as wearing on your nerves. Just keep it damp and wait.
I have taken some air layers of size from azaleas but they have to be ridiculously pampered the first year or so to build up root mass and strength. This is just the route I'd take if I wanted to be certain of getting it to strike roots and thrive afterwards. I have a much longer and warmer growing season here and have taken azalea trunks up to four inches in diameter this way before. But I have also ALWAYS given them a full year attached. I just can't see going to the effort and not hedging your bets on coming away with a winner. Hope this helps.
Grow something beautiful.
a.

I have this huge Azalea in my back yard. I have thought that past 3 years living here to try an air layer on this. It has tons of massive trunks in there. Obviously you can't see them because this giant is in full bloom. . . around 6' wide and 4' tall.

 

[bjones88]

Funny you mention a greenhouse. I was planning on getting one for the back yard this year

Eventually I want two greenhouses one to keep warmer than the other in winter.

How much longer of a growing season will I need to ensure there is a plentiful amount of roots?

 

[Poink88]

...Must say I am impressed that this variety is cold hardy on the North side of a house there. I have seen them further north but a LOT closer to the coast--and its maritime buffering of the temps--like within 30 miles of the coast in NJ. They were bred to be more cold hardy but this locale is pushing the limits of its ability to survive.

Good to know. As a bonsai, that means it will need winter protection then if grown at the same locale. Thanks.

 

[armetisius]

re: HUGE

Vin,
We are blessed with our growing seasons; I am in the cool sub-tropics and you are just inside the door of the warm sub-tropics. For you and I? We can match bjones88's from a local nursery or yard but bjones88 is about 30 miles from St. Louis on the IL side of the river. I broke down on Labor Day weekend in Collinsville, IL once--around 20 miles closer to St. Louis--and it was chilly at night there already. So, to us, this is not huge; however, in that area this is better than you could expect really. When this variety was released to the trade it, and its sister varieties, was the "Knock Out Roses" of its day. This house probably had a bank of them down that side of the house at one time and this is all that is left. Kind of like when we try to grow deciduous hollies/euonymous and they slowly die off one at a time. Our heat doesn't get them; it is the lack of "rest period" that slowly weakens the plant until it dies of something else. Or when people in Miami gripe about their Japanese Maples not doing what they expected. Well, there, it can be deep freezing of the soil--killing off roots and weakening it or bursting the bark and allowing fungal attacks; whatever it may be the plants slowly get it in the end. Must say I am impressed that this variety is cold hardy on the North side of a house there. I have seen them further north but a LOT closer to the coast--and its maritime buffering of the temps--like within 30 miles of the coast in NJ. They were bred to be more cold hardy but this locale is pushing the limits of its ability to survive. It may be that snow cover comes in early enough to protect it from the harshest of the cold. Kind of like using water cannons in the citrus groves during a freeze--ice only goes to 32, air temps can keep dropping--to protect what they can. Deep snow may be the ONLY thing that has saved this one. Or it may be one of the Gable hybrids like "Alice" and this may not be much out of the ordinary for it.

Sorry, but that's no where near huge. I think you might be surprised at what you'll find below the soil. I dug one up three times as big as yours the other day and about 4 inches below the soil line is a very nice trunk. There are roots above the trunk and roots below it with a bare trunk in the middle. Maybe you can get some photos of the soil line area and/or where you would layer it?

 

[drew33998]

Sorry, but that's no where near huge. I think you might be surprised at what you'll find below the soil. I dug one up three times as big as yours the other day and about 4 inches below the soil line is a very nice trunk. There are roots above the trunk and roots below it with a bare trunk in the middle. Maybe you can get some photos of the soil line area and/or where you would layer it?

Depending on the species it could be "huge".

 

[armetisius]

re: Roots v. Time

Funny you mention a greenhouse. I was planning on getting one for the back yard this year

Greenhouse? Put it in the full sun with at least one end guaranteed out of shade all day. You can hang shade cloth to cut back on the sun if needed and it is energy neutral but enough lights to grow in will kill your pocket unnecessarily.

Eventually I want two greenhouses one to keep warmer than the other in winter.

Good; one around 35 for chilling and holding in general and one around 70 will meet all your needs and then some.

How much longer of a growing season will I need to ensure there is a plentiful amount of roots?

I am certain, if you think this through, you will realize there is no way I can give you a date definite on this question. But I will fill you in on what goes on here. I root cuttings from the size of a tooth pick to the size of a kitchen match regularly in 6 to 8 weeks. Do they have roots enough to survive before then? yes. Do they have roots enough to thrive before then? NO. Now here is the rule around my house: if its smaller than a drinking straw leave it alone in a 4" pot; bigger? move it on to a two quart or gallon [depends on variety and vigor which it gets]; bigger than my little finger and it is time for the next size; the same for my middle finger and thumb each moving up in size and down on the side walls after the gallon size. From cutting to 3 gallon half-pot in a little over 3 years. From past experience I would comfortably say you need around 7 months minimum above 70 to strike roots on any of the trunks in your pictures. Now this is not saying that you will have sufficient roots for the plant to be happy and move along just that you will have some roots by then if all is well otherwise.
Plants taken before they are ready [but already possessing some roots] need some bottom heat, extra high humidity, and atmospheric warmth to build their roots up in. But you are still stuck with the water-logging to root development dilemna. Too little moisture and your plants will wither and die; too much and the roots--young, tender, and developing--will rot right off and see above. And there lays the rub. How many is enough for that size piece? There really is no way to safely advise you on that. It will depend on how much has formed, how healthy are they, what is it continuing to root in, what are the temps both air and bottom of pot, what are the humidity and light levels, automatic misting or not, etc. Now I know this is coming off long [and featuring me in the part of a-hole of the year] but I am only trying to inform you of the trials and possibilities involved. The very last thing I want to hear in a year or so is that I told you "wrong" and "your 'favorite' piece of stock" died. Hence my cautions.
Good luck which ever way you decide to jump and
grow something beautiful
a.

 

[Vin]

Vin,
We are blessed with our growing seasons; I am in the cool sub-tropics and you are just inside the door of the warm sub-tropics. For you and I? We can match bjones88's from a local nursery or yard but bjones88 is about 30 miles from St. Louis on the IL side of the river. I broke down on Labor Day weekend in Collinsville, IL once--around 20 miles closer to St. Louis--and it was chilly at night there already. So, to us, this is not huge; however, in that area this is better than you could expect really. When this variety was released to the trade it, and its sister varieties, was the "Knock Out Roses" of its day. This house probably had a bank of them down that side of the house at one time and this is all that is left. Kind of like when we try to grow deciduous hollies/euonymous and they slowly die off one at a time. Our heat doesn't get them; it is the lack of "rest period" that slowly weakens the plant until it dies of something else. Or when people in Miami gripe about their Japanese Maples not doing what they expected. Well, there, it can be deep freezing of the soil--killing off roots and weakening it or bursting the bark and allowing fungal attacks; whatever it may be the plants slowly get it in the end. Must say I am impressed that this variety is cold hardy on the North side of a house there. I have seen them further north but a LOT closer to the coast--and its maritime buffering of the temps--like within 30 miles of the coast in NJ. They were bred to be more cold hardy but this locale is pushing the limits of its ability to survive. It may be that snow cover comes in early enough to protect it from the harshest of the cold. Kind of like using water cannons in the citrus groves during a freeze--ice only goes to 32, air temps can keep dropping--to protect what they can. Deep snow may be the ONLY thing that has saved this one. Or it may be one of the Gable hybrids like "Alice" and this may not be much out of the ordinary for it.

I hear you and I hope my comment didn’t present itself as insulting or contradictory. It was meant to dissuade the notion that it may be too big to collect. Your overview of the possible conditions in which it has endured makes perfect sense. Perhaps even more weight should be given toward taking the whole azalea to ensure its ultimate survival? It’s a real beauty and would be a shame to lose it if it could be prevented. Your reply kind of reminds me of a grafted laceleaf JM I bought my wife for V-Day about 14 years ago. It started out as a beautiful foot and a half long trunk with many branches cascading from the apex. In its current state the trunk only measures about ¾” in diameter by 3’ long with zero branching until you reach the top. Time has not been kind to it and all that is left is a single 5” branch that had maybe ten leaves on it last year. Over the years it has been moved three times in an effort to revive the poor thing. I’m air layering it at the graft this year as a final effort to save it from the burn pile. Still learning..