glueing wire to bottom of slab or pot

jjbacoomba

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I was wondering if anyone knows what kind of glue is or can be used to glue wire to inside bottom of a slab or pot? I remember seeing this on a video of someone doing this to help secure a rock to a slab. Thanks, Joe
 

sfhellwig

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I guess I just haven't had amazing luck with superglue. What I remember from "the books" they always just said epoxy. I used to not have much luck with them either but have recently found a two part for plastic that I have been very pleased with (for it's purposes). Just look for a general purpose and make sure when you mix it the parts are equal.
 

Brian Van Fleet

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Use 2-part epoxy putty. Knead a ball of it, then embed a loop of wire into the ball and press it into the slab. Works great.
 

jk_lewis

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I have a couple of (second-hand) pots with glued-in wire, but I've never understood why one would do that. It's no problem using wire to attach the screen, and it makes cleaning and sterilizing pots much easier when the wire is not attached.

So someone please tell me why you do it.
 

sfhellwig

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I've never seen anyone do it to a pot, I just saw slab in the title. I'm thinking of a few books in which cases one was a tree planted on a slab of stone. Beautiful plantings but I don't understand how you keep the soil there long term. In that case attaching the tree to a flat surface without drilling through the stone is the goal. The other, older book that I am remembering was a miniature landscape with small seedling sized trees stuck to the side of a large vertical rock, wired into clumps of "muck." Looked like a Japanese mountain with trees growing on the side of it. Again, appears to be very difficult to maintain beyond normal bonsai practices.

I kept reading so I could say I read the whole book but had little interest in the process as I could not imagine doing one of these plantings. That means I'll be looking into doing this in about two more years knowing the way I come around.:p
 

Brian Van Fleet

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I have a couple of (second-hand) pots with glued-in wire, but I've never understood why one would do that. It's no problem using wire to attach the screen, and it makes cleaning and sterilizing pots much easier when the wire is not attached.

So someone please tell me why you do it.

I've never seen wire glued to a pot...and hope I don't!
But, epoxy putty with embedded wire loops make great tie-offs for trees on slabs.
 

Bonsai Nut

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+1 epoxy putty

I don't know that it makes a difference, but look for epoxy designed for use in wet/underwater locations (pool repairs, plumbing, etc).
 

jjbacoomba

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Thanks for all your replies everybody.I am posting a pic of the Elm on rock that I will be transfering into a much more suitable pot soon. I was given a longer,shallower oval pot for this by a club member who runs our club workshops. I cant tell by looking at the tree just how it is secured into the pot. There is some wire on the bottom coming from the drainage hole that seems to be holding the screen in. I really wont know until I remove the tree from the pot. My thoughts so far are to glue/epoxy wire for the job onto the bottom( inside) of the pot to secure the rock into position as an alternative to drilling holes into a really nice pot.Although I wonder if I will have to drill holes through the rock at all. We'll see. Thanks for the replies and I will keep yas posted when I do make the transfer. Thanks, Joe
 

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jjbacoomba

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Just found the video on " Rock Planting Bonsai " with Marion Gyllenswan. She was using what I think I heard( video was old) was Masakuni diabondo. It was a powder that she placed over the wire then added what looked like a clear glue on top of the powder. She mentioned that it sets very quickly. Although she was using this to secure a tree to the rock for a rock planting I think I can use something similar to secure my rock to the pot.
 

Smoke

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Just found the video on " Rock Planting Bonsai " with Marion Gyllenswan. She was using what I think I heard( video was old) was Masakuni diabondo. It was a powder that she placed over the wire then added what looked like a clear glue on top of the powder. She mentioned that it sets very quickly. Although she was using this to secure a tree to the rock for a rock planting I think I can use something similar to secure my rock to the pot.

The powder is usually cement and the clear liquid is super glue. Go to a hobby store to get the glue, get the thin viscosity glue. The one that is like water. Many hardware stores carry super glue but they are thick viscosity and gelled to fill gaps. You need the thin stuff to get clear to the bottom of the cement to adhere it to the slab. The cement powder will actually smoke due to the heat generated by how fast the bond is. Have everything set in place, wire holds and powder and make sure it is where you want it because when you squirt the glue in it will be over in about 6 seconds. DO NOT STAND OVER THE GLUE AS YOU SQUIRT IT. The fumes are noxious and in some cases you will blow chunks right on the spot. Just turn your head or bend away and it will be OK. Also do not get it on your hands cause you will glue the shit out of your self and there are not many solvents that will dissolve this stuff. Acetone if your lucky and you will still lose some skin.

This stuff was developed during Viet Nam for closing large wounds in the field to stop bleeding so glueing skin is what its for. Just don't do it.

It will work very well provided that surfaces are clean and the stone is cut to provide a smooth bond. If the stone is rough it may bond but it will not be strong.

Cyanoacrylate works well if the mating surfaces are tight. Tighter the better.
 
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sfhellwig

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I was going to come back and ask yenling83 to elaborate if the super glue and dry powder cement were mixed. I originally took the suggestion as super glue or mix up some cement from powder, neither of which sounded very promising.

Thank you Smoke for the details. When I read of "glue the wire to the rock" in the bonsai books I always had images of trees breaking loose and falling off of their plantings because of my experiences with epoxies and the such. This sounds like some serious stuff and serious, but simple and clean application. All the strength of a well glued joint but with the action of a squeeze bottle.

Now I want to go out and glue a piece of wire to a rock. If you guys keep distracting me I'll never get any work done.:rolleyes:
 
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I helped Mr. Masakuni introduce his instant stone glue to the United States, even had an article on it in the 1985/NO. 1 issue of International BONSAI, page 20.

After much searching and experimentation the best and simplest substitute for this fantastic, quick setting rock glue is:

SuperGlue, liquid
Baking Powder

This combination of two simple ingredients are easy to locate, quick to harden (about one minute) and work well for attaching wire to rocks for clinging-to-a-rock style bonsai.

Bill
 

Smoke

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I helped Mr. Masakuni introduce his instant stone glue to the United States, even had an article on it in the 1985/NO. 1 issue of International BONSAI, page 20.

After much searching and experimentation the best and simplest substitute for this fantastic, quick setting rock glue is:

SuperGlue, liquid
Baking Powder

This combination of two simple ingredients are easy to locate, quick to harden (about one minute) and work well for attaching wire to rocks for clinging-to-a-rock style bonsai.

Bill

Akadama dust works real well on granite slabs. Most any powder substance will work.

The best I have found is single ought pumice powder. It is used as 4 ought for french polish. being stone it is very strong. One reason many use cement powder.
 
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Al,

Many different substances can be used. I like to crush some small pieces of the rock which is being used for the rock planting to color the powder. This way it will not be too noticeable if some of the soil or muck gets washed away.

There are several different substances which can be used, use your own imagination and material which is handy.

Bill
 

digger714

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I used gorilla glue on a couple, and it worked good. It expands, so you dont need as much as you think. Put a little on a rock and see how much it expands, then glue your wires on. It dries in about 30 minutes, but i did it the day before i was starting the muck, and it was hard as concrete.
 
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