Going for a late JM air layer

[JakeH]

So a day or two ago my friend gave me permission to air layer one of the branches on his Bloodgood JM. It's a super healthy tree, and although it's a bit later in the season I'm still going to try and layer it.



I basically just did the standard procedure. Made some nice deep cuts, scraped the wood, dusted some rooting hormone, put some moss on it in a bag, and wrapped it all up. Really hoping this works out, but if not it wont be too big of a loss.

Only thing I'm a little worried about is maintaining good moisture. There may be gaps on the ends of my wrapping and I'm not sure if this'll dry out quickly. About how often do you guys check for moisture? and for roots?

 

[River's Edge]

So a day or two ago my friend gave me permission to air layer one of the branches on his Bloodgood JM. It's a super healthy tree, and although it's a bit later in the season I'm still going to try and layer it.

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I basically just did the standard procedure. Made some nice deep cuts, scraped the wood, dusted some rooting hormone, put some moss on it in a bag, and wrapped it all up. Really hoping this works out, but if not it wont be too big of a loss.

Only thing I'm a little worried about is maintaining good moisture. There may be gaps on the ends of my wrapping and I'm not sure if this'll dry out quickly. About how often do you guys check for moisture? and for roots?

It helps to retain a window into the clear plastic. If you can create that then only add moisture when there is a lack of droplets formed on the inside plastic wrap. I use a syringe to inject small amounts of moisture occasionally.
It depends, might be i week might be two. I tend to wrap the ends pretty tight with an electrical tie to compress the plastic folds.

 

[cbroad]

although it's a bit later

I've still been waiting to do mine this year, probably will happen in a week or two. I usually do it around Father's day.

I don't think it's that late really for you or me. You definitely have a longer growing season than me, and in my opinion have plenty of time. I've done some as late as August and was able to sever it in September, but it was an elm.

I'm not sure of the diameter of the branch you're doing but I tried one on a Emperor 1 (pretty similar to Bloodgood) that was around 2.5" diameter and it took over a year to throw it's first root. So this one might take a little more time than normal.

Good luck with it!

 

[JakeH]

I use a syringe to inject small amounts of moisture occasionally.

That's a good idea! I was trying to figure out how I'd undo all this tape and stuff to get inside, but using a syringe would make it much easier.

I don't think it's that late really for you or me.
I'm not sure of the diameter of the branch you're doing but I tried one on a Emperor 1 (pretty similar to Bloodgood) that was around 2.5" diameter and it took over a year to throw it's first root. So this one might take a little more time than normal.

I suppose it isn't, I've been reading of many people in zones near me doing this in late May/ early June with success.

This branch is a tad bigger than an inch I believe. It's really really long and has a ton of foliage. I think I heard somewhere that more foliage is good since it feeds the roots and makes them appear faster? Who knows, I guess only time will tell with this one

 

[Deleted member 21616]

There may be gaps on the ends of my wrapping and I'm not sure if this'll dry out quickly.

Online, I have often seen people use tightly-wrapped plastic like you did. In person, I have only ever seen it done with a pot as in the attached photo, without a plastic cover (i.e. completely open). I decided to wrap the sphagnum-filled pot in plastic, but i probably did not need to. I left the plastic very loose, and it is not at all 'sealed'.

Every time i water my trees (every morning), my air layers get watered too.

I don't know if there is any theoretical advantage to having an 'air-tight' wrapping around an air layer, but there seems to be no practical disadvantage to using an open-top pot as long as it is watered regularly. It helps that even by mid-June we have only experienced 1 day above 20C (68F) with full sun all-day so far here in Quebec. I suspect things are a little different in South Carolina

I've been reading of many people in zones near me doing this in late May/ early June with success

I have succeeded with air layers as late as June 29 (keeping in mind that my summer is much shorter than yours):

My Maples in Montreal

Good spring color.....one of our earliest risers....early-mid March most times.

www.bonsainut.com

In general, if you can protect the air layer from freezing temps in winter, you could air layer at any time of the year (although there would be no advantage to starting one in early winter), and sever whenever you're satisfied with the amount of roots that have been produced (some slow-growing cultivars take up to 18 months). In this case, because the tree is in the landscape it will be harder to protect it from freezing temps.

 

[Shibui]

Open pot layers are fine when the trees are watered daily and I prefer this method for layers on trees in the nursery but for layers on trees in the garden or forest a sealed system stays damp for months with little attention until the roots start taking moisture out of the bag.
The foil is not really necessary. Roots will grow quite happily in light, it is dry they don't like. Remove the foil to check both moisture levels and roots. You'll need to increase water additions as the roots start to grow as they will be taking some to feed the branch. When you can see a good amount of white roots through the plastic it will be time to remove the layer and pot it up.
I have found that layers do not really need many roots to survive separation. More new roots are developing that can't be seen and separation will actually push the tree to develop even more roots faster.

 

[Dav4]

Air layer in late summer

So, I've got this grafted semi-dwarf Acer palmatum that I planted next to my deck 7 years ago when I bought the house. It's proven to be too vigorous and fast growing for the space, so I'm planning on air layering it next spring.

www.bonsainut.com

I've started maple layers as early as February and as late as the third week of August with equal success in 7b N GA. As long as you create the layer properly and keep the media in the bag moist afterwards, you'll be fine.

 

[AlainK]

although it's a bit later in the season I'm still going to try and layer it.

I... read this reply that I totally agree with :

I've started maple layers as early as February and as late as the third week of August with equal success in 7b N GA. As long as you create the layer properly and keep the media in the bag moist afterwards, you'll be fine.

Here ("USDA zone 8a" or so), there's usually a second flush of growth in mid-June, and that's when my maple air-layers have been most successful. Like Dav4, I also had some success in mid-August, esp. when the beginning of Autumn is very mild.

Since I can see in your profile your zone is 7b, it must be a little colder, but it depends when the first frosts come. Each year, it's different.

 

[Boris]

good luck. I use plastic wrap and electrical tape at the ends to keep everything contained.

 

[Pitoon]

I don't know if there is any theoretical advantage to having an 'air-tight' wrapping around an air layer, but there seems to be no practical disadvantage to using an open-top pot as long as it is watered regularly.

I think what is most important is for medium to have full contact with the girdle and stay moist, not wet.

So a day or two ago my friend gave me permission to air layer one of the branches on his Bloodgood JM. It's a super healthy tree, and although it's a bit later in the season I'm still going to try and layer it.
I basically just did the standard procedure. Made some nice deep cuts, scraped the wood, dusted some rooting hormone, put some moss on it in a bag, and wrapped it all up. Really hoping this works out, but if not it wont be too big of a loss.
Only thing I'm a little worried about is maintaining good moisture. There may be gaps on the ends of my wrapping and I'm not sure if this'll dry out quickly. About how often do you guys check for moisture? and for roots?

That branch is several years old already. In my experience with JM it's a lot harder and takes longer for older branches to produce roots. I would find several current year or last year growth that has hardened off already and air layer that as those should produce roots within 4-6 weeks.

How much IBA is in the powder?

Post status updates if you can, i'm curious to see if this one will produce roots or not.

 

[JakeH]

That branch is several years old already. In my experience with JM it's a lot harder and takes longer for older branches to produce roots. I would find several current year or last year growth that has hardened off already and air layer that as those should produce roots within 4-6 weeks.

Since this cultivar doesn't lend itself extremely well to bonsai, I was hoping to start off with a trunk of decent thickness to make it worthwhile. I may try and get some of the new growth though, since I need to perfect this technique before I try it on any trees I really care for. I'm really hoping this will send out roots, even if it does take a while.

How much IBA is in the powder?

Post status updates if you can, i'm curious to see if this one will produce roots or not.

It says it's only .1% IBA to 99.9% other ingredients. It's all I had sitting around for this experiment, hopefully it works out.

And I'll definitely post updates! I'm gonna be checking every week for moisture and roots

 

[Pitoon]

Since this cultivar doesn't lend itself extremely well to bonsai, I was hoping to start off with a trunk of decent thickness to make it worthwhile. I may try and get some of the new growth though, since I need to perfect this technique before I try it on any trees I really care for. I'm really hoping this will send out roots, even if it does take a while.

It says it's only .1% IBA to 99.9% other ingredients. It's all I had sitting around for this experiment, hopefully it works out.

And I'll definitely post updates! I'm gonna be checking every week for moisture and roots

You could always take a scion and graft to root stock, It would definitely be faster. Short cuts don't always work. You may end up killing off a large branch of your friends tree.

0.1% may not be enough. You could try 0.8% or 1.6%.

 

[JakeH]

You may end up killing off a large branch of your friends tree.

0.1% may not be enough. You could try 0.8% or 1.6%.

If this doesn't turn out and the branch dies it's okay, he was planning on chopping this entire branch in the future anyways.

I'm really not sure how this will turn out, since it's mainly just a learning experiment. Worst case scenario I gain some experience with these and my friend chops it anyways. I may have to order up some of that higher percent rooting hormone, I never realized how low of a percentage mine was

 

[R3x]

In general, if you can protect the air layer from freezing temps in winter, you could air layer at any time of the year (although there would be no advantage to starting one in early winter), and sever whenever you're satisfied with the amount of roots that have been produced (some slow-growing cultivars take up to 18 months). In this case, because the tree is in the landscape it will be harder to protect it from freezing temps.

Actually in one of the videos Ryan Neil claims he has never had airlayer damaged by frost. There was some explanation about new roots and sugars that will make it really frost hardy. I was doing airlayer on old pear branch, left it on the tree during winter and separated in early spring. It grows happily. Here's a picture.

 

[Deleted member 21616]

Actually in one of the videos Ryan Neil claims he has never had airlayer damaged by frost

yes I heard him say that too, and I trust him. There are freezing temps and there are feeezing temps though. When i "protect an air layer from freezing temps" i am protecting it from a 1-2 weeks of -30C (-22F) that we inevitably get during the winter.

the climate where Ryan Neil works is notoriously suitable for growing japanese maples outdoors all year without protection, so when he says that he has left air layers outside all winter one has to keep in mind that he is referring to a winter whose coldest days are about 20-30 degrees warmer than what somebody would get in 5a/b, where even the most vigorous maples die as a whole, forget the layer.

 

[R3x]

yes I heard him say that too, and I trust him. There are freezing temps and there are feeezing temps though. When i "protect an air layer from freezing temps" i am protecting it from a 1-2 weeks of -30C (-22F) that we inevitably get during the winter.

the climate where Ryan Neil works is notoriously suitable for growing japanese maples outdoors all year without protection, so when he says that he has left air layers outside all winter one has to keep in mind that he is referring to a winter whose coldest days are about 20-30 degrees warmer than what somebody would get in 5a/b, where even the most vigorous maples die as a whole, forget the layer.

-30C definitely asks for protection for almost anything ;-)

 

[JakeH]

5 weeks later... I think I see some roots growing!?

A good bit of rainwater has gotten into the bag, hopefully it wont be too wet inside there for the roots

 

[0soyoung]

Just punch a small hole in the lowest part of the bag --> drain.
... with a nail, the points of scissors, or the like.

 

[BrightsideB]

I have enjoyed reading these posts. I read that it is good to cut back the branches on the air layered branch so that the roots aren't stressed trying to support such a large branch. My question is if I should cut the branches on the air layered branch before or after I remove it from the tree?

 

[0soyoung]

I have enjoyed reading these posts. I read that it is good to cut back the branches on the air layered branch so that the roots aren't stressed trying to support such a large branch. My question is if I should cut the branches on the air layered branch before or after I remove it from the tree?

The foliage produces the carbohydrates and auxin for root growth. No foliage, no root growth for all practical intents. On the other hand, one can put the harvested layer in shade and sprinkle perioudically (especially in the heat of the afternoon) to compensate for roots that are not yet 'up to speed'.

I favor this approach over cutting back.