Going sumo!!! Opinions are much appreciated!

[Daniel son STL]

Alright guys this is actually my first ever $100 tree back when I first got into the art. Almost killed it the first winter and lost all branches on one side of it. Anyway after recovery from the near death experience I’ve basically just let it grow and wired once. Wasn’t sure in the direction I was going but was leaning towards a one sided triangular semi cascade canopy. This growing season I’ve done nothing but fertilize, still a little unsure of where I was going with it.

Until about 2-3 months ago When i saw a sumo willow leaf ficus for sale on eBay by wigerts bonsai and that idea hasn’t left my head since. Just been contemplating weather or not to leave an old branch, or just cut all thick braches off including upper apex leaving basically a stump. Although it already has an enormous amount of fresh branches down low to choose from.



And this is what I’m going for... or something similar (wigerts bonsai ficus)

 

[Daniel son STL]

So basically asking if anybody thinks I should keep one of these two mature branches

And go for something more like this



Pardon my picture editing skills. Hopefully you can get the idea.

All comments welcome. If your going to be negitive that’s fine, just make sure you back it with constructive advise also please!
Thanks!

 

[amcoffeegirl]

It is my personal opinion that you should continue to grow it on until the base fuses together more.
You can still see gaps in your base and you want a solid trunk.
I would keep all the branches you currently have and maybe even plant it deeper for a year.
I do love that tree also from wigerts.
Did it sell?

 

[Daniel son STL]

Not sure if it sold.

Yeah I can leave the top to grow and start developing the bottom. Although now it kinda gives off the appearance of muscles, or maybe just looks like roots. I don’t know.

It does need to be repotted this year. Although I was thinking a smaller, rounder, and shallower pot. Lol I get what your saying though, deeper pot, grows faster/larger, get that trunk all mashed together.

Thanks for the advise

 

[Daniel son STL]

What about those two branches I was asking about??

 

[amcoffeegirl]

I really think for now just keep it all.
The side branches will add to the base movement and every branch with help it melt together.
When you are ready to make the cuts - which you can do anytime as long as it’s healthy and growing- it will just take longer to melt the base if you chop now- I think you should remove all the larger branches at that time.
Then grow the buds that pop back.
You will get buds in every direction then you can choose your new branches and leader.
It will then be a true sumo in proportion.
The pic is mine from Schley’s Bonsai

 

[amcoffeegirl]

They still have it. It is a nice one though.

 

[just.wing.it]

I agree!

 

[Cadillactaste]

I suggest you really research Sumo Bonsai. And really look at the ones that draw you in. Love Sumo myself. I've an entire album on FB on my wall designated for that style. So the thick branches I do see your concern. Google the style...and take note of which ones really speak to you...and why. And go from there.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

So basically asking if anybody thinks I should keep one of these two mature branches
View attachment 249695
And go for something more like this

View attachment 249696

Pardon my picture editing skills. Hopefully you can get the idea.

All comments welcome. If your going to be negitive that’s fine, just make sure you back it with constructive advise also please!
Thanks!

This rough plan could work, roughly.

Seriously, the wide canopy, low domed apex, all fit well with "banyan style" trees. And Ficus are Banyans.

I would go to a wider, shallower pot. If you keep up on watering & fertilizer & near full sun, you can quickly increase size even in a restricted pot. The hot, humid summer Saint Louis is having is helping the tree. I dread my upcoming visit to St Louis in middle of August.

"True Sumo" is more like the stump with no branches. You can easily root cuttings, in fact every root you remove while repotting can become a root cutting. But stems, twigs, even major branches will root quickly in 90F heat with 90% humidity, so you have another 2 months to get repotting and cuttings rooted. Nothing will root easily over winter, so if you do any propagation, do it now.

I like the more banyan style you already have going, and you can start various cuttings to begin several true Sumo projects, you can do small shohin sumo, and you can start a couple larger ones. Won't take long, you can grow a cutting over 4 inches diameter in less than 5 years.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

The circling root that loops behind the branches you had in the red circle will never fuse the way the other roots will fuse. I would remove it, use it as a root cutting. Remove the root, plant it with the cut edge exposed to the sunshine. Put it out e full sun. It will take as much as a year, but maybe only weeks, and it will sprout. You can chop the root into segments, each will sprout.

Sumo - classic the nebari is a single fused mass that rises to become the trunk, but it is rounded, like a hill or mountain. The trunks or branches, look more like individual trees sprouting out of the hill or mountain made by the nebari. Look at Ebihara maple discussions, and don't get overwhelmed by the excessive details. The basics of building a Sumo are partly explained in the Ebihara technique.

Key - keep root arrangement radial, and shallow. Avoid big "tubers" as these won't fuse quickly. Finer roots fuse easily.

You can do it.

 

[Sekibonsai]

So basically asking if anybody thinks I should keep one of these two mature branches
View attachment 249695
And go for something more like this

View attachment 249696

Pardon my picture editing skills. Hopefully you can get the idea.

All comments welcome. If your going to be negitive that’s fine, just make sure you back it with constructive advise also please!
Thanks!

Red, no, blue maybe. Chop higher up than where your line indicates.

 

[Daniel son STL]

This rough plan could work, roughly.

Seriously, the wide canopy, low domed apex, all fit well with "banyan style" trees. And Ficus are Banyans.

I would go to a wider, shallower pot. If you keep up on watering & fertilizer & near full sun, you can quickly increase size even in a restricted pot. The hot, humid summer Saint Louis is having is helping the tree. I dread my upcoming visit to St Louis in middle of August.

"True Sumo" is more like the stump with no branches. You can easily root cuttings, in fact every root you remove while repotting can become a root cutting. But stems, twigs, even major branches will root quickly in 90F heat with 90% humidity, so you have another 2 months to get repotting and cuttings rooted. Nothing will root easily over winter, so if you do any propagation, do it now.

I like the more banyan style you already have going, and you can start various cuttings to begin several true Sumo projects, you can do small shohin sumo, and you can start a couple larger ones. Won't take long, you can grow a cutting over 4 inches diameter in less than 5 years.

Thanks t

This rough plan could work, roughly.

Seriously, the wide canopy, low domed apex, all fit well with "banyan style" trees. And Ficus are Banyans.

I would go to a wider, shallower pot. If you keep up on watering & fertilizer & near full sun, you can quickly increase size even in a restricted pot. The hot, humid summer Saint Louis is having is helping the tree. I dread my upcoming visit to St Louis in middle of August.

"True Sumo" is more like the stump with no branches. You can easily root cuttings, in fact every root you remove while repotting can become a root cutting. But stems, twigs, even major branches will root quickly in 90F heat with 90% humidity, so you have another 2 months to get repotting and cuttings rooted. Nothing will root easily over winter, so if you do any propagation, do it now.

I like the more banyan style you already have going, and you can start various cuttings to begin several true Sumo projects, you can do small shohin sumo, and you can start a couple larger ones. Won't take long, you can grow a cutting over 4 inches diameter in less than 5 years.

The circling root that loops behind the branches you had in the red circle will never fuse the way the other roots will fuse. I would remove it, use it as a root cutting. Remove the root, plant it with the cut edge exposed to the sunshine. Put it out e full sun. It will take as much as a year, but maybe only weeks, and it will sprout. You can chop the root into segments, each will sprout.

Sumo - classic the nebari is a single fused mass that rises to become the trunk, but it is rounded, like a hill or mountain. The trunks or branches, look more like individual trees sprouting out of the hill or mountain made by the nebari. Look at Ebihara maple discussions, and don't get overwhelmed by the excessive details. The basics of building a Sumo are partly explained in the Ebihara technique.

Key - keep root arrangement radial, and shallow. Avoid big "tubers" as these won't fuse quickly. Finer roots fuse easily.

You can do it.

Thanks for that great advise. I was going to throw it in a deeper training pot and grow it out but I do like the idea of going shallower.

Never done a root cutting but I’ll give it a shot bc I agree that loop of a root is not appealing by any means and like you said, “it will never fuse”. I must have 40 cuttings at least, all rooted. Weather out here sucks but yes, the trees love it.

I like banyan style as well. I just don’t see it ever producing lateral style aerial roots. Unless I toss it in a deep container/humidity chamber or burry it in a deep pot for 2 years!
Guess I could graft roots...

But I still wanna go sumo. I’ll be going to cass bonsai to pick up a tree I’ve had on lay-away lmao!!
I’ll keep my eye out for a pot.... all pots 50% off right now I do believe, don’t quote me. If I can’t find anything I’ll just slap it in a deeper grow container and let grow for a year or so and see how the trunk responds and go from there.

 

[Daniel son STL]

Red, no, blue maybe. Chop higher up than where your line indicates.

Really? I was thinking at the line, but now I’m thinking lower. Leo just stated sumo should resemble a hill with individual trees. I like this idea and can see it in the wigerts sumo I posted up top

 

[Daniel son STL]

I suggest you really research Sumo Bonsai. And really look at the ones that draw you in. Love Sumo myself. I've an entire album on FB on my wall designated for that style. So the thick branches I do see your concern. Google the style...and take note of which ones really speak to you...and why. And go from there.

I will definitely research a lot of different sumos before making any major decisions.
Thanks!!

 

[Sekibonsai]

I will definitely research a lot of different sumos before making any major decisions.
Thanks!!

I think if you do this you will see that Sumo does not equal "clump or "turtleback" style.

 

[Sekibonsai]

Just a few examples available when you google sumo style bonsai. Note, no clump/forest on a lump...