Good bonsai potential

Messages
47
Reaction score
24
Location
North Carolina
I just planted this slippery elm aka field elm20200811_103223.jpg(I think) does it have good bonsai potential or should I plant it back in the woods. I'm new to bonsai so I still need help finding good bonsai worthy saplings😁.
 

Rivian

Chumono
Messages
883
Reaction score
725
Location
DE
USDA Zone
6
Field elm is susceptible to Dutch elm disease (DED), but that doesnt mean itll necessarily catch it. Other than that, field elm is a good species for bonsai
 
Messages
47
Reaction score
24
Location
North Carolina
Field elm is susceptible to Dutch elm disease (DED), but that doesnt mean itll necessarily catch it. Other than that, field elm is a good species for bonsai
Thank you! I have heard of DED and have never seen the beetle thats spreads it or DED on any of my elms!
 

HorseloverFat

Squarepants with Conkers
Messages
11,356
Reaction score
16,223
Location
Northeast Wisconsin
USDA Zone
5a
I saw the question posed in the title... and then saw it categorized under Elm..

I thought, “Absolutely good material.” Without even seeing it. “Might have to talk about Elm diseases..”

And @Rivian already beat me to
It.

Nice Elm!!

🤓
 

Leo in N E Illinois

The Professor
Messages
11,341
Reaction score
23,294
Location
on the IL-WI border, a mile from ''da Lake''
USDA Zone
5b
@BonsaiWilderness
You are in the USA, the slippery elm, Ulmus rubrum, is native and fairly common. The field maple, Ulmus minor, is native to Europe. The field maple is an invasive species in some areas. You need to use a dichotomous key to definitively sort out which is which. Keys are usually available as links to your state forestry websites. Browse your state forestry website and look for Keys to identifying trees of your state. Given you found it in "woods", even second growth forest, the probability is that it is Ulmus rubrum, as its seedlings tolerate more shade than many other elm species. So I'd say better than 50% chance you have slippery elm.

Slippery elm and field elm make good bonsai. Actually, virtually all elm species make good bonsai. This is a very young seedling, as such it is silly putty as bonsai, can be bent and twisted into any style you like. It will need a fair amount of growing to get any trunk caliper. You are probably looking at 5 to 10 years before it is "exhibition ready".

In the future, you should look for large diameter trunks of the same species. Look for trunks that are 2 inches or larger in diameter. These will likely be over 5 feet tall, key is that there are bends and twists in the first 6 inches of the trunk. If the first 6 inches of a trunk is interesting, then the tall tree can be cut short, and new branches can be trained to develop the whole tree. Truth is, most bonsai are brought DOWN to size by bonsai training. Key is to learn to see a large tree, and figure out how to bring it down to size, rather than grow a small seedling up to the size of your desired plan.

In fact, when you grow bonsai from seed, often you have to let the seedling to get to large size, 5 to 15 feet tall, and then cut it back down to 4 or 6 or 8 inches. The height is needed to get the diameter of trunk needed to create the image of a large tree in miniature. So even bonsai from seed, tend to spend 5 or more years at a size and height that is as much as 10 times the desired finished height.

It takes a bit to get to see the small tree in the 10 foot tall tree. But eventually you will get "the eye". Learn to identify the trees in your woods. You should be able to walk through and identify at least half the trees in there. You will then be able to read and recognize which species you have that are good for bonsai.

Look for
Hornbeam, loose flowered hornbeam also called American hornbeam, Carpinus caroliniana. Its great for bonsai. Similar but with slightly different bark, is Hop-Flowered hornbeam, Ostrya virginiana. It grows in slightly dryer sites than Carpinus, It too is excellent for bonsai.

Look for Acer rubrum - red maple, is reasonably good for medium to large scale bonsai. Most of the Eastern North American maples are not good for bonsai. Silver maple, Acer saccharinum, is poor, Acer negundo - box elder is poor choice, and sugar maple, Acer saccharum is also a poor choice for bonsai. The man made hybrid, Acer x freemanii sold under many names as a street tree is somewhat more difficult to use as Acer rubrum, but it is not impossible.

Beech, Fagus grandifolia is tricky, but desirable for bonsai. It is difficult to grow and requires some specialized pruning techniques, but a well grown beech bonsai is glorious.

As said earlier all the elms, are good for bonsai. Even the American elm, the leaves reduce nicely.

Linden - Tilia americana has large leaves that do not reduce beyond about 1 to 2 inches, it is sometimes used for large scale, 3 to 4 foot bonsai. It can be impressive as bonsai.

Crataegus - the hawthorns - all species make good bonsai. Sorting out species identity is tricky if you live in an area with more than one species, as they hybridize frequently.

Malus - the apple tree, and crab apple trees, if you have any that have "gone native", they make good bonsai.

Shrubs to look at, holly, especially any of the native hollies, like Ilex opaca, Ilex glabra, Ilex verticillata and the many other species, these all make good bonsai. Amelanchier, serviceberry, or saskatoon, also called shadblow, this cousin of the apple is an excellent tree for small bonsai as it does not trunk up quickly.

Juniper communis - the field juniper is good. Juniperus virginiana - the eastern red cedar is not so good.

Eastern white pine, Pinus strobus - is a poor choice for bonsai. Pinus virginiana, and Pinus rigida - the Virginia pine, and the Pitch pines are good for bonsai. The long needled yellow pines of various species are poor choices. Pines need to have needles naturally less than 5 inches or they are not worth trying to do bonsai with them.

If you are lucky enough to have American persimmon, Diospyros virginiana, I believe it will make excellent bonsai. They develop the coolest, near black, alligator checked bark, and bark starts forming on trees as young as 10 years old. This one you might have to do from seed, start a bunch, as you need both a male and a female to get fruit.

SO if you learn to identify each of the trees I just listed, you will probably cover half the trees in your woods.

A few bad choices, Fraxinus - all the North American ash species, are poor choices. Walnut, pecan and butternut are poor choices. Hickories - the leaves never reduce, thus making them poor choices. Birch are used by some, they are tricky, often results are not as good as the "idea".

This should get you started. Get a "Trees of North America" guide, or Trees of Eastern North America. Also browse your State Forests websites. Learn your local trees and shrubs.
 

Rivian

Chumono
Messages
883
Reaction score
725
Location
DE
USDA Zone
6
I think youre mixing up field elm and field maple... just gonna confuse him more
 

Leo in N E Illinois

The Professor
Messages
11,341
Reaction score
23,294
Location
on the IL-WI border, a mile from ''da Lake''
USDA Zone
5b
When an Elm is growing in a bonsai pot, or any container, it is relatively easy to treat with a systemic fungicide to eliminate Dutch Elm Disease. When an elm is growing in the ground, a full sized tree, treating for dutch elm disease is difficult & expensive, and usually long term ineffective.

@Rivian - no, the European field elm - Ulmus minor - is indeed an invasive species here in USA. It is very possible the OP could encounter it on his property in North Carolina. I am not confused, I was speaking about elms. We also have Ulmus pumila - Siberian elm - which is a very wide spread invasive. I have acres (hectares) of this nasty, invasive elm, colonizing the family blueberry farm.
 

JoeR

Masterpiece
Messages
3,949
Reaction score
3,452
Location
Sandhills of North Carolina
USDA Zone
8a
@BonsaiWilderness
You are in the USA, the slippery elm, Ulmus rubrum, is native and fairly common. The field maple, Ulmus minor, is native to Europe. The field maple is an invasive species in some areas. You need to use a dichotomous key to definitively sort out which is which. Keys are usually available as links to your state forestry websites. Browse your state forestry website and look for Keys to identifying trees of your state. Given you found it in "woods", even second growth forest, the probability is that it is Ulmus rubrum, as its seedlings tolerate more shade than many other elm species. So I'd say better than 50% chance you have slippery elm.

Slippery elm and field elm make good bonsai. Actually, virtually all elm species make good bonsai. This is a very young seedling, as such it is silly putty as bonsai, can be bent and twisted into any style you like. It will need a fair amount of growing to get any trunk caliper. You are probably looking at 5 to 10 years before it is "exhibition ready".

In the future, you should look for large diameter trunks of the same species. Look for trunks that are 2 inches or larger in diameter. These will likely be over 5 feet tall, key is that there are bends and twists in the first 6 inches of the trunk. If the first 6 inches of a trunk is interesting, then the tall tree can be cut short, and new branches can be trained to develop the whole tree. Truth is, most bonsai are brought DOWN to size by bonsai training. Key is to learn to see a large tree, and figure out how to bring it down to size, rather than grow a small seedling up to the size of your desired plan.

In fact, when you grow bonsai from seed, often you have to let the seedling to get to large size, 5 to 15 feet tall, and then cut it back down to 4 or 6 or 8 inches. The height is needed to get the diameter of trunk needed to create the image of a large tree in miniature. So even bonsai from seed, tend to spend 5 or more years at a size and height that is as much as 10 times the desired finished height.

It takes a bit to get to see the small tree in the 10 foot tall tree. But eventually you will get "the eye". Learn to identify the trees in your woods. You should be able to walk through and identify at least half the trees in there. You will then be able to read and recognize which species you have that are good for bonsai.

Look for
Hornbeam, loose flowered hornbeam also called American hornbeam, Carpinus caroliniana. Its great for bonsai. Similar but with slightly different bark, is Hop-Flowered hornbeam, Ostrya virginiana. It grows in slightly dryer sites than Carpinus, It too is excellent for bonsai.

Look for Acer rubrum - red maple, is reasonably good for medium to large scale bonsai. Most of the Eastern North American maples are not good for bonsai. Silver maple, Acer saccharinum, is poor, Acer negundo - box elder is poor choice, and sugar maple, Acer saccharum is also a poor choice for bonsai. The man made hybrid, Acer x freemanii sold under many names as a street tree is somewhat more difficult to use as Acer rubrum, but it is not impossible.

Beech, Fagus grandifolia is tricky, but desirable for bonsai. It is difficult to grow and requires some specialized pruning techniques, but a well grown beech bonsai is glorious.

As said earlier all the elms, are good for bonsai. Even the American elm, the leaves reduce nicely.

Linden - Tilia americana has large leaves that do not reduce beyond about 1 to 2 inches, it is sometimes used for large scale, 3 to 4 foot bonsai. It can be impressive as bonsai.

Crataegus - the hawthorns - all species make good bonsai. Sorting out species identity is tricky if you live in an area with more than one species, as they hybridize frequently.

Malus - the apple tree, and crab apple trees, if you have any that have "gone native", they make good bonsai.

Shrubs to look at, holly, especially any of the native hollies, like Ilex opaca, Ilex glabra, Ilex verticillata and the many other species, these all make good bonsai. Amelanchier, serviceberry, or saskatoon, also called shadblow, this cousin of the apple is an excellent tree for small bonsai as it does not trunk up quickly.

Juniper communis - the field juniper is good. Juniperus virginiana - the eastern red cedar is not so good.

Eastern white pine, Pinus strobus - is a poor choice for bonsai. Pinus virginiana, and Pinus rigida - the Virginia pine, and the Pitch pines are good for bonsai. The long needled yellow pines of various species are poor choices. Pines need to have needles naturally less than 5 inches or they are not worth trying to do bonsai with them.

If you are lucky enough to have American persimmon, Diospyros virginiana, I believe it will make excellent bonsai. They develop the coolest, near black, alligator checked bark, and bark starts forming on trees as young as 10 years old. This one you might have to do from seed, start a bunch, as you need both a male and a female to get fruit.

SO if you learn to identify each of the trees I just listed, you will probably cover half the trees in your woods.

A few bad choices, Fraxinus - all the North American ash species, are poor choices. Walnut, pecan and butternut are poor choices. Hickories - the leaves never reduce, thus making them poor choices. Birch are used by some, they are tricky, often results are not as good as the "idea".

This should get you started. Get a "Trees of North America" guide, or Trees of Eastern North America. Also browse your State Forests websites. Learn your local trees and shrubs.
The weakley key is the go-to for this area. You can download the full dichotomous key PDF for free online. Search feature helps, its a ~1600 page PDF i believe.

D. virginiana is an absolute nuisance for me. They sucker 20+ feet from the tree, and when cut back they only come back with more shoots. They pop up in my greenhouse, the grow beds, and through the weed matt and gravel. They also seem to be disease prone in my locality. But, their classic ebony bark is stellar and leaves can probably reduce. Finding a worthwhile specimen is unlikely, though id collect one in a heartbeat.

I would add sweetgum to Leo's list as well, abundant here and make good medium to large bonsai.

Throw some wire on that elm!!
 

Michael P

Omono
Messages
1,218
Reaction score
1,855
Location
Dallas, Texas, AHS heat zone 9
USDA Zone
8a
Great advice from Leo, as always. When starting out with a tiny sapling, you can wire the flexible trunk into all sorts of interesting curves and bends close to the soil. Don't purne anything off. Leave the wire on long enough to "set" the shape so it doesn't spring back to straight. Then take the wire off and let it grow like mad by potting up frequently or planting in the ground. Resist the urge to prune until the trunk is near the thickness you want.

This is still a long term project, but you will wind up with a tree that has those interesting features in the first 6" of trunk that Leo describes.
 

Rivian

Chumono
Messages
883
Reaction score
725
Location
DE
USDA Zone
6
Resist the urge to prune until the trunk is near the thickness you want.
I think its worth considering 1 early chop, maybe after 1 or 2 years, so it send out more shoots that you can then let grow for another 3 or 4 years. This way the taper will spread more evenly throughout the trunk, each branch will contribute.
 

Michael P

Omono
Messages
1,218
Reaction score
1,855
Location
Dallas, Texas, AHS heat zone 9
USDA Zone
8a
I think its worth considering 1 early chop, maybe after 1 or 2 years, so it send out more shoots that you can then let grow for another 3 or 4 years. This way the taper will spread more evenly throughout the trunk, each branch will contribute.

Good point. I've mostly done this with species that readily produce branches low on the trunk. You might be able to accomplish the same thing by just pinching the top early on.
 
Messages
47
Reaction score
24
Location
North Carolina
The weakley key is the go-to for this area. You can download the full dichotomous key PDF for free online. Search feature helps, its a ~1600 page PDF i believe.

D. virginiana is an absolute nuisance for me. They sucker 20+ feet from the tree, and when cut back they only come back with more shoots. They pop up in my greenhouse, the grow beds, and through the weed matt and gravel. They also seem to be disease prone in my locality. But, their classic ebony bark is stellar and leaves can probably reduce. Finding a worthwhile specimen is unlikely, though id collect one in a heartbeat.

I would add sweetgum to Leo's list as well, abundant here and make good medium to large bonsai.

Throw some wire on that elm!!
I am going to wire it in about 3-4 weeks! I am soo scared to wire young trees after I gave my year old maple that I found a nice big wire scar😬.
 

Davidlpf

Chumono
Messages
548
Reaction score
1,469
Location
North Toledo, almost Madrid, Spain
USDA Zone
9
I just planted this slippery elm aka field elm
View attachment 322272
(I think) does it have good bonsai potential or should I plant it back in the woods. I'm new to bonsai so I still need help finding good bonsai worthy saplings😁.
Are you sure that that is an elm?, It looks more like a carpinus to me. :rolleyes:

Anyway is a good material to start if you have the patience to grow it.

"A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step "

Cheers.
 
Last edited:
Top Bottom