Good Clay Body for Bonsai Pots cone 6 to 8.

penumbra

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I know quite a bit about clay bodies and what constitutes a good clay for outdoor use. I have made many pots over the past ten years that have held up very well. However, I am curious as to what clays other potters here might prefer for bonsai pots. I typically fire cone 6 but I can also fire higher. I understand the vitrification process, I just want to know what clays you have been pleased with. I prefer a Standard clay but will also use Laguna, Highwater, Star or another based upon availability.
Thank you so much.
 

Smoke

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Probably be an excellent question on a pottery forum. Quite likely to stir some shit too!!


not so much here on a tree forum...
 

sorce

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You need, Note...NEED not Want.

The one under 2% absorption.

And
truth truth...

I wouldn't trust anything over 1%.

"The saturation coefficient S should be less than 0.78 in order to pass CSA and ASTM specs for outdoor use." -digitalfire.com

You can use clays that have a proper open and closed porosity, but then you are relying on the impossible, a network of cavities within your clay body expansive enough tp allow for the expansion of absorbed water.

Which doesn't equate to a "guarantee" of frost proof....
Which...
According to Peter Krebs' site, is a MUST for A bonsai potter. The Guarantee.

That's why people called me crazy for a guarantee....

But I still guarantee some of the best wares you'll find out there...at least as far as holding up to sickles and Ice ...sicles!

Next.

Sorce
 

penumbra

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I appreciate your input Source. I will have to check my sources. Under 2% is pretty scarce I believe.
 

Soldano666

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Scheffields is near me too. I done remember product numbers but they have some low percentage mid fire clays
 

penumbra

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Thanks guys. I will check with my Standard and my Highwater rep also. I really want to work primarily with brown clays. They are best for my types of washes and oxides.
 

sorce

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Absolutely, because the people making the clay are catering to art classes and schools, none of which are likely to care or have a real obligation to provide clay that can become vitreous and withstand outdoor use. So the Clay Companies have absolutely no obligation to provide a bonsai Potter, a mere -1% of the potter population, with clay that is good for our uses. They have absolutely no $ to be had from providing clays for outdoor use.

The closest you get is Sculptural clay, I reckon because "sculpture" sounds big, and big, like our trees, fits outside.

That is the reasoning. Legit. Stupid.

The "out" of any liability is this, words spoken from Tom Turner, famous for his Porcelain and Porcelain works for decades, "They don't mine clays, or pottery chemicals, for potters. It's made for industries much larger than pottery."
When speaking of raw materials. Ones which a potter may use to create his own "clay body". Not shit in a bag.

Red Clay, the Grollegs China or English white Clays, Fire Clays, yellow clays.
Glaze chemicals; Opacifiers, colorants, flint, alumina.

Everything is made for other industries, from cosmetics to food.

So not only is there no obligation to the Bonsai Potter who, for all intents and purposes within the clay industry, doesn't even exist.
There is not even an Obligation to potters at all!

So trusting store bought clay is unreliable.
"Bag clay". Fuck it.

You best test Mine!

.........

I'm bought to hit my River, and clean more a this red and yella. Work it and test it till it's right.

That's a clay body.

Bag Clay. Shiiiiiit.

Sorce
 

penumbra

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I completely understand what you are saying source and it makes sense. I needed to hear this. Making my own clay is a dream and I know many potters who do so, but it is not an option for me at this point. I also know some prolific potters who have their own clays blended and bagged by large clay manufacturers but they are really going through the material and must get 1000 to 2000 pounds at a clip.
My own question and the replies led me to some research on clay bodies and I have found several at or under 1% and a few at .25 to .35 percent. Also fortunately I have used many of these clay bodies and some of the pots I have made are over 10 years old and have been exposed to elements like -14 degrees weather. Primarily my desire has been to create art, particularly Raku, so it has not been a concern for most of my work. Bonsai pots are in my future and I have 4 local nurseries and 2 specialty stores that want just about anything I can make, but it has been on the back burner as I have been liquidating inventory from my antique business over the past several years. This winter I really need to give myself a swift kick in the ass and get busy.
Thanks to all.
 

sorce

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create art, particularly Raku

I have a Raku Whistle!

Did we know Raku is a Japanese family name, and only they know the ACTUAL method for a RAKU fire and Glaze?

So technically. ..what we do isn't Raku!

Sorce
 

penumbra

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The same can be said for almost anything, including bonsai. I have studied under Japanese artists, does that count?
 

rockm

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I completely understand what you are saying source and it makes sense. I needed to hear this. Making my own clay is a dream and I know many potters who do so, but it is not an option for me at this point. I also know some prolific potters who have their own clays blended and bagged by large clay manufacturers but they are really going through the material and must get 1000 to 2000 pounds at a clip.
My own question and the replies led me to some research on clay bodies and I have found several at or under 1% and a few at .25 to .35 percent. Also fortunately I have used many of these clay bodies and some of the pots I have made are over 10 years old and have been exposed to elements like -14 degrees weather. Primarily my desire has been to create art, particularly Raku, so it has not been a concern for most of my work. Bonsai pots are in my future and I have 4 local nurseries and 2 specialty stores that want just about anything I can make, but it has been on the back burner as I have been liquidating inventory from my antique business over the past several years. This winter I really need to give myself a swift kick in the ass and get busy.
Thanks to all.
Glad to hear a Virginian is getting into bonsai pottery!
 

Anthony

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Hello,

busy doing fine trimmings on a house.

We use an earthenware clay that has a frit added on.
Hand builds well and oldest pot in use is around 25 or so years.
Porosity can be manipulated from 5% to 0%.

Maturing temperature is cone 022 to 08.small cone.

Simply frit the clay.
No need to waste so much energy.
Best.
Anthony
 

penumbra

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Thank you for your reply Anthony. However an earthenware low fire clay with or without grit is not going to take extreme freezing weather.
 

sorce

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Standard 417 fires to Cone 02 and has 1% absorption.

You can blend a vitreous body for lowfire .

Sorce
 

penumbra

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Thanks Sorce but I fire nothing below cone 6 except raku. Even my raku clay is not a low fire clay. In fact, I have no low fire clay in my studio, won't allow them. In 6 years of kiln repairs for others I saw a lot of kilns destroyed be people getting their clays mixed up and firing low fire to cone 6.
I made a list of clays the other day that are 1% or less absorption. Some are Standard and I found that Highwater makes several that are 1% or less. I had been using one all along for my bonsai pots, Red Rock, which is a nice light brown but dark with an iron oxide wash.
 
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