Got a medium Kumquat tree (in a ~30-40gal container right now, un-chopped) and unsure whether air-layering, or hard-pruning, is the best way approach!

[SU2]

Hi everyone!! So this is my first year where, in winter, I've got full-sized trees that are just being kept alive til spring when I can safely work them into stock/pre-bonsai's, and while most seem straight-forward enough there is one I'm very split on - in fact 'splitting it' is even crossing my mind!

So I got this Kumquat recently, sitting in his large container w/ organic soil and sporting foliage & 2 fruits (green ones, not the orange I see online..)

My original thinking was "trunk is thin but I can probably work with that" and that to do so I'd simply wait til real growth resumes (~March) and start doing hard-prunes, cutting everything back to the lowest-active-node, then waiting for back-budding beneath those....then cut-back to the new back-budding, until I'm finally at the point where I'm getting buds on the beginnings of the 3 limbs/sub-trunks (where the single trunk splits to 3) and then use those 3 as the 'primaries' with my newly-formed buds/shoots as secondaries from those; this would likely require 2-4 hard-prunes, depending how readily it back-buds (not too readily, from how I understand fruit trees in-general), so basically spending the first season just setting the first primaries (or secondaries I guess) But, with a trunk that tall&straight, I don't think this will make a bonsai but a topiary/niwaki instead and that's not the goal (hmm, perhaps it would be if I had other kumquats, but not for my only one!)

I've started thinking it's the wrong move, and that instead I should just air-layer the thing!!! So, what do you guys think should I be air-layering that '3 sub-trunk split' from the rest of the trunk, giving me a 3-trunked base once I remove the layering from the trunk?


I feel like, if that is the best approach (air-layering that top off), that I may be able to do so in a way wherein I get a "2-for-1", IE what if, instead of only air-layering that top off, what if I simultaneously air-layer *and* do the aforementioned hard-prunes? Wouldn't that give me a chance of not only capturing that top (w/ the base of the new / layered specimen being that quasi-whorl where it splits to 3) *but* also letting me keep the trunk that's there now IE the air-layering isn't removed until I've gotten budding below it, so its removal /= death for the stick/roots that comprise the bottom-half of this specimen!

Thanks a ton for any&all advice on this one, am pretty sure that air-layering the top off it is the only way to get a decent bonsai going although the idea of also getting/keeping the trunk alive is real appealing, I know that part will take longer to develop but still Kumquats aren't a common one I come by so if I can get two I'd prefer that, although the most-important thing is to simply get good material even if it's just 1 piece from this
Again thanks and have a great weekend everyone!!!

 

[Mellow Mullet]

If it is nursery stock, it is most likely kumquat grafted to orange trifoliate rootstock. Most of the grafts that I have seen are pretty craptastic as the aren't made to be aesthetically pleasing. So, air layering or ground layering might be the way to go, but I don't know how these respond to those techniques, never tried it personally.

You probably want to get rid of one of those three trunks, it is already making an unattractive bulge and it will only get worse.

I doubt seriously that you can kill the root stock. I have had many landscape specimens of citrus (meyer lemon, Satsuma, key lime, and kumquat) over the years that got killed by winter (the scion) only to have the roots (trifoliate) sprout months later from a completely dead looking stump. That stuff is tough!

Here is the contorted version:

http://www.heartofdixiebonsai.com/c...e/9-blog-post/71-the-flying-dragon?Itemid=101

Not a kumquat, but a calamondrin orange. You can expect similar back budding on your kumquat. My parents have several full size kumquat trees (sweet variety) in their yard. pruning the branches always results in copious new growth.

http://www.heartofdixiebonsai.com/c.../9-blog-post/74-calamondrin-orange?Itemid=101

 

[SU2]

If it is nursery stock, it is most likely kumquat grafted to orange trifoliate rootstock. Most of the grafts that I have seen are pretty craptastic as the aren't made to be aesthetically pleasing. So, air layering or ground layering might be the way to go, but I don't know how these respond to those techniques, never tried it personally.

Awesome thank you, will try and see if it is (is it fair to say that you can always or almost-always spot a graft-line?)

Air-layering seems the only way the more I looked at it, but...ground layering? Could you elaborate? I'm literally picturing digging a giant pit for the root-mass + the straight portion of the trunk, and 'planting' in-ground so that where the trunk --> 3 sub-trunks, is where the surface is..is that what you mean? Then tourniquette right beneath the soil, or cut off a ring / expose cambium and then dust with IBA? (am planning on using IBA on both this project and my ficus air-layering from a ~4" wide trunk, if you know anything about rates of IBA I'd be eager to hear )

I really like this thing, just the idea of deep-burying it and forcing roots to grow right beneath where the 3-trunk starts is an appealing idea just due to how safe it should be, would expect the highest % success that way and really don't want to waste time doing a failed air-layer (I've never done an air-layer in my life, should probably rectify that lol although the Ficus I mentioned is forcing me to do so anyways ;D )

You probably want to get rid of one of those three trunks, it is already making an unattractive bulge and it will only get worse.

hhmmmmmnnn, to be honest I hadn't really visualized this thing's lines very much as I was preoccupied w/ getting it separated but I think you're right...damnit I really liked the 3, am going to have to ponder this (actually I think that same concern essentially forces one of two things, because that bulge is there due to the 'split' between the "two left-side trunks" and the "one right-side trunk" which starts a bit lower on off the main trunking, I think this means I either have to ditch that one right-side trunk from the start and just work with the two left-most ones, or, possibly, keep all 3 and fix the taper issue by planting very precisely so the soil surface is a downward (from left-to-right in that last pic) line, forcing me to tilt the base counter-clockwise and tilt the top slightly forward, essentially taking that existing bulge and planting it directly at.soil.surface itself so it goes from bulge to base! Do you think that'd work? The inverse taper would be gone while still retaining all 3

I doubt seriously that you can kill the root stock. I have had many landscape specimens of citrus (meyer lemon, Satsuma, key lime, and kumquat) over the years that got killed by winter (the scion) only to have the roots (trifoliate) sprout months later from a completely dead looking stump. That stuff is tough!

Not a kumquat, but a calamondrin orange. You can expect similar back budding on your kumquat. My parents have several full size kumquat trees (sweet variety) in their yard. pruning the branches always results in copious new growth.

Nice!!! Not that I expect I can do much with it but still like to keep stuff if possible (hence my problem w/ too many specimen out back rofl), relying on that back-budding was my original plan IE just do a strong pruning off the bat and let it back-bud, then cut-back to the lowest, wait on back-budding again, and keep repeating that til I've got budding low enough for my new leader at which point the cut-backs stop and the development starts, will be far better to just layer the top off and keep the base although if slightly worried about it surviving an aerial layering then I'm just gonna dig a lil pit and ground-layer it!!!

Here is the contorted version:

http://www.heartofdixiebonsai.com/c...e/9-blog-post/71-the-flying-dragon?Itemid=101

http://www.heartofdixiebonsai.com/c.../9-blog-post/74-calamondrin-orange?Itemid=101

lol I'm about to go check these after having told myself I will *only* read those url's, your site is so easy to get lost in especially during BC time (how's it going there BTW? Don't think I've seen you in my 'mega thread', I made a sweet "BC Saw" from a 2x4" and a pole-saw's blade lol, it's great ) https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/2...-mega-thread-d.36707/#lg=thread-36707&slide=4

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

I have never air layered any citrus species. I have tried to root cuttings, and have had very inconsistent results. This suggests that air layering results will also be inconsistent.

I have successfully air layered Malus, crab apple, it seemed to root fairly easily. I have tried to air layer pines, and out of some 20 attempts have only had success 3 times, between 10% and 20%, if you only count JBP pine attempts I have about a 25% success rate and it always took 2 or 3 years.

So my caveat is air layering is not a 100% guarantee, and if it fails, you loose everything above the point where you placed the air layer. I would air layer each of the 3 main branches off separately, no more than 2 at a time in the same year. That way if they fail you won't loose the whole tree.

 

[Mellow Mullet]

Awesome thank you, will try and see if it is (is it fair to say that you can always or almost-always spot a graft-line?)

They are usually pretty obvious, the scion being noticeably smaller that the root stock

Air-layering seems the only way the more I looked at it, but...ground layering? Could you elaborate? I'm literally picturing digging a giant pit for the root-mass + the straight portion of the trunk, and 'planting' in-ground so that where the trunk --> 3 sub-trunks, is where the surface is..is that what you mean? Then tourniquette right beneath the soil, or cut off a ring / expose cambium and then dust with IBA? (am planning on using IBA on both this project and my ficus air-layering from a ~4" wide trunk, if you know anything about rates of IBA I'd be eager to hear )

Never tried ground layering on citrus, cuttings root easily enough so I don't see why it would not work.

I really like this thing, just the idea of deep-burying it and forcing roots to grow right beneath where the 3-trunk starts is an appealing idea just due to how safe it should be, would expect the highest % success that way and really don't want to waste time doing a failed air-layer (I've never done an air-layer in my life, should probably rectify that lol although the Ficus I mentioned is forcing me to do so anyways ;D )

Air layers are easy, give it a whirl.


hhmmmmmnnn, to be honest I hadn't really visualized this thing's lines very much as I was preoccupied w/ getting it separated but I think you're right...damnit I really liked the 3, am going to have to ponder this (actually I think that same concern essentially forces one of two things, because that bulge is there due to the 'split' between the "two left-side trunks" and the "one right-side trunk" which starts a bit lower on off the main trunking, I think this means I either have to ditch that one right-side trunk from the start and just work with the two left-most ones, or, possibly, keep all 3 and fix the taper issue by planting very precisely so the soil surface is a downward (from left-to-right in that last pic) line, forcing me to tilt the base counter-clockwise and tilt the top slightly forward, essentially taking that existing bulge and planting it directly at.soil.surface itself so it goes from bulge to base! Do you think that'd work? The inverse taper would be gone while still retaining all 3

Again, haven't tried ground layering.


Nice!!! Not that I expect I can do much with it but still like to keep stuff if possible (hence my problem w/ too many specimen out back rofl), relying on that back-budding was my original plan IE just do a strong pruning off the bat and let it back-bud, then cut-back to the lowest, wait on back-budding again, and keep repeating that til I've got budding low enough for my new leader at which point the cut-backs stop and the development starts, will be far better to just layer the top off and keep the base although if slightly worried about it surviving an aerial layering then I'm just gonna dig a lil pit and ground-layer it!!!



lol I'm about to go check these after having told myself I will *only* read those url's, your site is so easy to get lost in especially during BC time (how's it going there BTW? Don't think I've seen you in my 'mega thread', I made a sweet "BC Saw" from a 2x4" and a pole-saw's blade lol, it's great ) https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/2...-mega-thread-d.36707/#lg=thread-36707&slide=4

Glad you enjoy the site, it is forever a work in progress. Look for a big article on repotting my BC, coming soon, and another guest starring my Dad's BC, which has multiple knees, getting a repot. It is too heavy for him to manage and has asked me for help.

I read through the mega thread, but did not comment. Since my BC techniques are unconventional (even though others practice them and don't get called out like I do), I don't comment much anymore in BC threads, unless directly asked a question. Your saw looks pretty cool, but it looks like it might be tough to hold on to with the lightening bolt handle, just an observation, but I haven't held it in my hand, so it might just be the bee's knees. Does it work well? I haven't collected any BC from the wild, all of mine were grown from seed.

 

[Mellow Mullet]

Well, that is weird, some how most of m comments ended up in the quote. How did I manage that?

 

[JoeH]

From what I see, I don't see a graft, it may be buried under all that junk in the pot. Like Mellow Mullet said they are reallllly obvious. More than likely it is a graft.