Got my kids up off the ground floor.

Crawforde

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Of the 802 shootings in which race of the police officer and the suspect was noted, 371 of the those killed were white; 236 were black.

And compare those percentages to overall percentages of the population.
 

August44

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I think this situation is being handled totally wrong by the local and Federal governments involved IMO. Needless killing of anybody is wrong...black, white or green. There is police brutality and it is wrong and should be stopped! Peaceful protests should be allowed, but when they turn into riots, with burning, looting, and more killings, then they need to be stopped. Allowing these people to tear down statues is absolute craziness. There are a lot of people involved in these violent protests that could care less about black lives. All they want to do is have their fun destroying, looting, and causing unrest. And then one big city up in Washington just gives these people part of their city??? Ya, that makes sense. They are just spoiled kids throwing a tantrum and the City, State, and federal governments involved are letting them get away with it. And take a look at the Cities where this is happening and what party is running these places. We're all being duped here!! It is guaranteed that allowing this type of thing to go on, will just allow it to get worse in the future. You can't allow this type of thing to go on anymore that allowing a dog to be mean and bite people or a brat child to burn you're house down just because they feel like it. Seriously, what the hell is wrong with the people that are supposed to be in charge is my question??
 

Brian Van Fleet

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Of the 802 shootings in which race of the police officer and the suspect was noted, 371 of the those killed were white; 236 were black.

And compare those percentages to overall percentages of the population.
Compare those percentages to arrests, not to the general population.
 

PiñonJ

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That “never-ending stream” is exactly 10 in the last 5 years
said Carlson.
You shouldn’t bring an ideological carnival barker to an intellectual discussion. Carlson’s main purpose in life is to maintain his TV ratings. I downloaded the data for the report he quotes. I stopped counting the number of fatal police shootings of unarmed black men after 15 in the first four months of 2015. So far, in 2020, I count seven. And that’s in a year with Covid shut-downs. Furthermore, this is only a report of fatal police shootings, because that was the easiest thing for the Post to glean from media reports. There are no reliable official statistics. This report does not include non-fatal shootings, nor does it include death by other causes, like choke holds, or being bounced around in the back of a police van, unrestrained.

if you’re not in a situation where you’re interacting with cops, the likelihood of being shot by one drops to zero.
Enter the crime....

Driving while black
It’s not just the killings. It’s also the much more common harassment. You choose not to be aware of it.
 

Brian Van Fleet

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You shouldn’t bring an ideological carnival barker to an intellectual discussion. Carlson’s main purpose in life is to maintain his TV ratings. I downloaded the data for the report he quotes. I stopped counting the number of fatal police shootings of unarmed black men after 15 in the first four months of 2015. So far, in 2020, I count seven. And that’s in a year with Covid shut-downs. Furthermore, this is only a report of fatal police shootings, because that was the easiest thing for the Post to glean from media reports. There are no reliable official statistics. This report does not include non-fatal shootings, nor does it include death by other causes, like choke holds, or being bounced around in the back of a police van, unrestrained.



It’s not just the killings. It’s also the much more common harassment. You choose not to be aware of it.
I won’t respond to the personal attacks, and your sources aren’t quoted, so I have no comment.

Have you ever considered that we Americans are, in general, good people? You, me, everyone here. I personally don’t know anyone who stands for inequality.

Have you considered that we are being lied to, in order to divide us and to destroy a country where each of us, regardless of race, stands a better chance to succeed than anywhere else on the planet? Its not perfect, but I’d rather be here and now than anywhere else.

Cheers.
 

PiñonJ

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I won’t respond to the personal attacks, and your sources aren’t quoted, so I have no comment.
I was impugning your source, not attacking you. Here’s my source. It’s a link to the database used by the Washington Post for the article. There are plenty of deaths of unarmed whites and other races, as well, but as has been stated elsewhere, it’s a matter of proportion. They all warrant more scrutiny.
Have you ever considered that we Americans are, in general, good people?
Yes, and I do believe that.
I personally don’t know anyone who stands for inequality.
I don’t know any white supremacists, either, or any other kind of racial purists. But racial bias is much more insidious.
Have you considered that we are being lied to
Well, now you’re talking about politicians. 🤣
Its not perfect, but I’d rather be here and now than anywhere else.
I completely agree. And we should always strive to make it better.
 

August44

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PinonJ "
"I was impugning your source, not attacking you. Here’s my source. It’s a link to the database used by the Washington Post for the article. There are plenty of deaths of unarmed whites and other races, as well, but as has been stated elsewhere, it’s a matter of proportion. They all warrant more scrutiny.
https://raw.githubusercontent.com/w...otings/master/fatal-police-shootings-data.csv"


Seriously, you believe the Washington Post?? They tell more lies every day than I will tell in a life time! And of course, they aren't biased at all.
 

PiñonJ

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PinonJ "
"I was impugning your source, not attacking you. Here’s my source. It’s a link to the database used by the Washington Post for the article. There are plenty of deaths of unarmed whites and other races, as well, but as has been stated elsewhere, it’s a matter of proportion. They all warrant more scrutiny.
https://raw.githubusercontent.com/w...otings/master/fatal-police-shootings-data.csv"


Seriously, you believe the Washington Post?? They tell more lies every day than I will tell in a life time! And of course, they aren't biased at all.
I didn’t choose the source. Tucker Carlson did. And he, in turn was BVF’s source. I went to as primary a source as possible - the actual database, not an editorial. You need to pay more attention to the thread, if you’re going to post.
 

AZbonsai

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I really thought we had a shot for change this time!
All of us saw on the face of the cop who had his knee on George Floyd's neck pure unadulterated evil. There was no denying it! Who could watch that and not come to the realization that there is something sickeningly wrong with our system of justice? No one that I know.
I am not so sure that change is going to happen now. What could have been the catalyst for change was hijacked and watered down to plain old garden variety destruction that we have seen in the past. Sadly, there is nothing new to looting, rioting, killing and burning down cities in the "name" of social justice and racial inequality. All the rioting has accomplished is to take the focus off of the horrific event that unjustly ended the life of a black man at the knee of a person who had sworn to protect us all. Unfortunately, and maybe purposefully, it has given a segment of the population, who may have been willing to join the conversation for the first time about police brutality after witnessing the killing of George Floyd, an excuse to once again turn a blind eye to injustice. It is sick and wrong but that is what I believe has happened once again.
I really thought we had a shot for change this time.
 

August44

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I've read this 5 times PinonJ, and still get the same thing. The first three words explain what I am seeing. he key word is "MY". If you meant something different, you should have said so. You need to pay more attention here!;)

"Here’s my source. It’s a link to the database used by the Washington Post for the article. There are plenty of deaths of unarmed whites and other races, as well, but as has been stated elsewhere, it’s a matter of proportion. They all warrant more scrutiny.
https://raw.githubusercontent.com/w...otings/master/fatal-police-shootings-data.csv"
 

Boscology

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I think we are all being relatively civil discussing a difficult topic, I think my first post was possibly not tea house material but its an important discussion.

My friend Philando wasn't committing any crimes, he was however armed with his legal pistol, and he was shot 4 times at point blank range by the cop standing outside his vehicle. They closed down the school he worked at for months after his death so the kids could grieve. Local news did several segments on the school and talked to several of the grade schoolers who said they had a special relationship with Phil the lunchroom guy....

Then the parents of a child who they described as being autistic were shown interviewed, their son would not let either of his parents hug him, but there was one person who he would allow an embrace with, Phil, his lunchroom friend who he would see, hug, and talk to every day at lunch.

Recalling this story as I frequently do, I do not really feel sadness any longer but rather an actual physical pain in my head trying to understand.
 

August44

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What a sad story! Feel for you Boscology.
 

leatherback

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What could have been the catalyst for change was hijacked and watered down to plain old garden variety destruction that we have seen in the past. Sadly, there is nothing new to looting, rioting, killing and burning down cities in the "name" of social justice and racial inequality.
Watched a documentary this week, and came to the same conclusion. This has become so ingrained in the USA system. Really odd to see.

1968
1593327096025.png1593327108122.png1593327120102.png1593327468691.png

a country where each of us, regardless of race, stands a better chance to succeed than anywhere else on the planet?

I really do not understand why this is still what many people think, as it is founded in wishfull thinking, rather than reality. It might actually contribute to unhappiness of many, as they do not see their situation improve.

 

Orion_metalhead

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Compare those percentages to arrests, not to the general population.

Thank you for bringing up a MAJOR statistical issue. Every time i see stats listed, they ALWAYS use per capita as the denonominator. This is a flat out sham of analysis. Why are we counting the people that DIDNT do anything wrong as somehow being relevant to who has died in police custody... or in any crime statistics for that matter??
 

August44

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I really thought we had a shot for change this time!
All of us saw on the face of the cop who had his knee on George Floyd's neck pure unadulterated evil. There was no denying it! Who could watch that and not come to the realization that there is something sickeningly wrong with our system of justice? No one that I know.
I am not so sure that change is going to happen now. What could have been the catalyst for change was hijacked and watered down to plain old garden variety destruction that we have seen in the past. Sadly, there is nothing new to looting, rioting, killing and burning down cities in the "name" of social justice and racial inequality. All the rioting has accomplished is to take the focus off of the horrific event that unjustly ended the life of a black man at the knee of a person who had sworn to protect us all. Unfortunately, and maybe purposefully, it has given a segment of the population, who may have been willing to join the conversation for the first time about police brutality after witnessing the killing of George Floyd, an excuse to once again turn a blind eye to injustice. It is sick and wrong but that is what I believe has happened once again.
I really thought we had a shot for change this time.


AZbonsai...I guess I did not read this post very well. When you say, "Who could watch that and not come to the realization that there is something sickeningly wrong with our system of justice? No one that I know." Well I will raise my hand and say it was sick, damn sick of the officer involved, not the justice system. Also, he was arrested and charged with murder. I'm not sure what more you think should happen. I think there were a lot of people that were appalled after watching that. If I was on the jury, I would convict him in a second!
 

AZbonsai

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@Peter44 He was arrested the day after, which was surprisingly quick for a police officer and unusual from what I have seen in the past.. Me personally, what do I think should have happened? I think George Floyd should still be alive. Do not get me wrong on this! I am very supportive of the men and women who do an incredibly dangerous and difficult job as police officers (was actually voted DARE teacher of the year once ;). And you are correct, justice overall was served. However, I see our police departments as part of the justice system and when there is one officer killing a handcuffed man who is face down on the ground while 3 other officers stand by and do nothing leads me to believe that there is something deeply wrong with this part (MPD) of the system. I could pass that off as a one off if there were not so many other examples from different police departments that had the same outcome. Saying justice was served, there was an arrest made, seems so dismissive. Shouldn't we want a better outcome? There is plenty of blame to go around with all of this. And my point was I really thought we had a shot for change this time!
 
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leatherback

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I know my post could annoy people. Please do not take it as bashing or anything. I am utterly amazed at the situation, and just cannot come to grasps with these police shootings. It is so far removed from my normal..

why are we counting the people that DIDNT do anything wrong as somehow being relevant to who has died in police custody... or in any crime statistics for that matter?

I could imagine that there are loads of situations where the people in custody did not really do anything? And that people who realize that being in police custody poses a thread to their well-being might resist the request by the police to come with them. This means that anybody could face this predicament, and as such, comparison to the whole population would make sense? Especially if you see that people from a certain walk of life are significantly more often stopped and checked. Remember, not all police arrests are reasonable, nor are those stopped and arrested automatically guilty (What is the USA premise: Guilty untill prooven innocent? Or innocent untill prooven guilty?)

Even in George Floyd s case.. What did he really do? He paid with a fake 20, I think is the extent of it? Certainly at that time, the ONLY thing they had was that, right? They did not even know whether he was aware it was fake?

If the police goes that far to arrest people just on a hunch or small incidents, that means it could happen to anyone. Just like running for dinner after having a beer. Really? Reason for being arrested?

I would say, a massive overhaul is needed. But how and where to start.. No idea.
 

sorce

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I just want to thank everyone for being reasonable and calm in this discussion.

Peace!

Sorce
 

A. Gorilla

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>>I would say, a massive overhaul is needed. But how and where to start.. No idea

There are trade offs for every choice.

Concept 1. Federal police force with consistent standards.
Pro: Raises the floor
Con: lowers the ceiling

A British cop wrote a book called "wasting police time" where he (amongst other anecdotes) compared the British response to a stolen bike vs. the Canadian and American model. British will spend dozens of administrative man hours on the paperwork. Canucks and Americans deal with it personally in 20 minutes. Get the thief. If not, enter serial number as stolen. If no serial number or further leads, close the case and move on.

Modular police forces (American).

Pro: High ceilings
Con: Low floors

Marion County IL has three job choices for young men. Coal mine, retail, welfare, or Deputy Sheriff. How big is their training budget? "Training.....budget?"

Low standards for diversity reasons(criminal histories, personal histories, credit scores):
Pros. Darker average skin tone
Cons: Undesirable white men also ride that wave, and its a big deal when the pale people act like retards. We just don't care so much when the dark idiots display their incompetence.

On the other hand, some departments are phenomenal. But you never hear about them because they aren't fucking up.

On paper, Las Vegas should be ground zero of police corruption but amazingly they keep a lid on things, and rarely will you ever see jaw dropping stupidity a la George Floyd's murder.

There is a price for everything. You can't NOT pay it.
 

A. Gorilla

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Audit the places which are doing things well, and incentivize copy catting.

St. Paul MN (not Minneapolis, despite being neighbors) has their noobs go through 100 hours of jiu jitsu. That is amazingly progressive. George Floyds thing would never happen in St. Paul even if you repeated the situation 10,000 times because its just so profoundly pointless to a trained person.
 
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