Grafted A. palmatum

Dwight

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While wandering through local nurserys , I've found a few A.palmatum " bloodgood ". They have all been grafted and most of the grafts are rather ugly and often 3" to 4" above soil level. I've seen these planted in favoradle micro environments here and they seem to do well and grow rather fast. I know nothing about them as bonsai sooooooooo

1) can they be considered a good candidate for bonsai and

2) how can the ugly graft union be delt with ?
 

Dwight

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Yes I saw Groupers thread but the idea of the graft union wasn't mentioned I think. On another thread it was suggested that air layering would work but I've been told by an expert ( BS degree and all that crap ) that bloodgood won't grow on it's own roots. Sounds rediculous to me but what do I know ?
 

Brent

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Dwight

Well, in this case the BS stands for Bovine Scatological studies. Bloodgood is extremely easy to airlayer and was one of the first A. palmatum cultivars to be commerically propagated from cuttings, i.e., on its own roots. As for use as bonsai, plan on a HUGE tree, that's the only way the leaves will be in proportion. The spring show is spectacular, it's pretty boring the rest of the year, long coarse internodes, coarse growth, leaves that don't reduce much.

Brent
EvergreenGardenworks.com
see our blog at http://BonsaiNurseryman.typepad.com
 

Dwight

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Well you won't believe this one. I went to Lowres thgis afternoon to get stuff for the Japanese garden and swung by the trees on the way out when low and behold , a small group of Japanese maples appeared. Good price ( $64 ) , small very delicate leaves and it's still red so maybe it will stay that way. The tag says A.p." deco " which I assume from Lowes means " decorative ". Pictures tomorrow.
 

imholte

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I have air layered many grafted maples right below the graft union and it works well. Many palmatum cultivars will not grow their own roots and this is an easy way to get a tree if the graft is too high or hideous.
 

Dale Cochoy

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Dwight,
I have 4 big "Bloodgoods" left that I've been working on since they were collected 7-9 foot tall trees with winter top kill. None are grafts. I think they look/respond great, but, these are fairly big so my leaves look nice....and blood red.
Cuts heal fantastic as with most maples.
But, I keep hearing how they don't make good bonsai....:eek:
Dale
 

Dwight

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Dale , I've been told that three or four times today. Might grab one next spring anyway just to see
 

Dwight

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Another stup[id beginner question : how do I go about identifying this thing I got from Lowe's ?
 

Graydon

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how do I go about identifying this thing I got from Lowe's ?
You could ask the garden department manager if they have more info. Most of the time if they are not slammed they will help. Perhaps they do not know but can give you the grower info. Don't be surprised if the grower is in Texas as Lowes tends to try to but as local as they can (at least here in Florida they do).

You may be able to identify from a combination of leaves both mature and emerging as well as fall color. There is a great book that I think is simply called Japanese Maples by JD Vertrees that covers them as in depth as any book I have seen - but not for bonsai - for general garden use. I think Stone Lantern has it on sale this week (or month).

Best of luck with the ID of the tree. It's nice to know but not the most important thing. If it's a beautiful tree I could care a less what the cultivar name may be.
 

Dwight

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Thanks Graydon. The people at Lowe's were clueless so I Googled the grower and sent them an e-mail. The actual nursery is in Oklahome but the corporate offices are somewhere else. It's worth a try anyway.

HHere's a couple of pictures. First is a mature leaf. Sorry it's out of focus but the point and shoots....... Second is the whole tree. It does resemble what I was looking for. The graft is about half way between the soil line and the fork in the trunk. It's real obvious in real life. There were a couple of broken branches so I trimed them and dipped them in rooting hormone then planted them. If they do form roots that probably means I can air layer this guy where ever I want.

BTW , there's a ton of new growth on the thing and the newest ( smallest leaves ) is pretty green. The mature leaf pictured is about 3" across.
 

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Dale Cochoy

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"Bloodgood" I repotted 2 months ago after cutting wayyyy back.
Sorry it's in a bad spot to photo between house and garage and kiln shed.
Height 47"
Width 47"
In a pot I made.
Regards,
Dale
 

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Bonsai Nut

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Hey Dale, where's the cigarette pack? Seriously, it is difficult to tell the scale of this photo. Would you mind taking another one with a soda can or something in the pic? It appears that the leaves are actually quite small (compared to Bloodgoods I see at the nursery). Did you get this naturally or did you do something different (i.e. defoliate)?
 

Graydon

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Hey Dale, where's the cigarette pack? Seriously, it is difficult to tell the scale of this photo. Would you mind taking another one with a soda can or something in the pic? It appears that the leaves are actually quite small (compared to Bloodgoods I see at the nursery). Did you get this naturally or did you do something different (i.e. defoliate)?
See the bricks on the right side of the photo?
 

Dwight

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Thanks Dale , thats a great tree and should be an encouraging site for those of us interested in bloodgood. Did it start as nursery stock and does it still have the graft base ?
 

JasonG

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Nice tree Dale!

Dwight, I would trim this thing down quite abit, cutting everything back to a few sets of leaves. Force it to put out its second flush of growth much closer to the trunk. I have a big huge one that I have tried 2 airlayers on without any luck. It has a 6" trunk and is very old. I was told that the bigger and older ones are touchy when it comes to airlayering. My first attempt resulted in huge Callas. The 2nd attempt was a few months ago as the buds were starting to swell...... well they swelled and stoped. The cambium is still green but no bud action. Chances are I killed it which I will be kinda sad if that is the case. But we are putting 2000 of them in the ground next spring so I will have a replacement in a few yrs.

You should have better success layering this young tree compared to my old one. Try to give it a hair cut soon though.....Good luck

Jason
 

Dale Cochoy

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Hey Dale, where's the cigarette pack? Seriously, it is difficult to tell the scale of this photo. Would you mind taking another one with a soda can or something in the pic? It appears that the leaves are actually quite small (compared to Bloodgoods I see at the nursery). Did you get this naturally or did you do something different (i.e. defoliate)?

BNut,
Maybe this link will explain it all better for you.
Post #230 at:

http://forum.bonsaitalk.com/f17/some-fresh-stuff-15108/index23.html

The cement "tree round" slab the pot is sitting on is 24" across.

Jason,
"Dwight, I would trim this thing down quite abit, cutting everything back to a few sets of leaves. Force it to put out its second flush of growth much closer to the trunk."

You are talking about Dwights tree? Correct.

I agree with the defoliation in early summer if healthy and if no serious potting/styling actions have recently taken place.,
only once per year and not every year.

Dale
 
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Dale Cochoy

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Here are three more field grown BGM's that were cut back heavily for the third time just last weekend. 5/27
These were originally 7-9 ft. field grown trees that had severe winter kill and I got them for $25 each at a wholesale nursery. They were b&b'd and brought home, cut back heavily, bare rooted, root pruned and placed into those nursery containers with bonsai mix..
I added a coke can for Bnut this time:p
The long branches will be cut back again in a few weeks once new buds pop further back on branches/twigs. That will end this years torture.
Next year these will go into bonsai pots/training pots at which time some serious root work will be done as was done on the above tree in the thread I posted a link to.
Dale
 

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Tachigi

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Well Dale you made me think. BGMs might be a viable crop for us. We had toyed with the idea, but abandoned it due to leaf size and internode spacing. You showed me if the tree is big enough it could work. This is something to think about again.

Hate it when I eat crow ;)
 

JasonG

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BNut,
Jason,
"Dwight, I would trim this thing down quite abit, cutting everything back to a few sets of leaves. Force it to put out its second flush of growth much closer to the trunk."

You are talking about Dwights tree? Correct.

I agree with the defoliation in early summer if healthy and if no serious potting/styling actions have recently taken place.,
only once per year and not every year.

Dale
Hi Dale, Yes as the quote shows I was talking to Dwight about his tree. I wasn't thinking about defolation but more of cutting it back to 2 or 3 internodes on the bottom portion of the tree and 1 or 2 on the top portion of the tree. I do this with all my maples in training and they respond well. There are still lots of leaves left after I do this.

As for your other BG's, there is some good potential there for sure! Good deal and nice find on those.

Jason
 

Dwight

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Wait guys , I didn't get notified of any of yesterday's posts so I'm kinda catching up. This tree isn't a bloodgood. I've seen a few of these and know what to look for. The leaves are much smaller and much closer together. Jason and Dale, are you telling me to cut this guy back NOW , right after I brought him home ? I was gonna see if I can keep it alive for a season first. Maples generally don't do well here as it's hot and dry during the summer. I guess it wouldn't hurt to give it a slight haircut though. Advise please.

BTW Dale , way to go !!
 

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