Grafting circumvent difference

Adamski77

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Hi All… as I’m getting ready for my first grafting approach in couple/few weeks I have a question as my scion will be significantly smaller than the base trunk I’m trying to graft on. When you attempt to graft thinner branch on thicker part of a trunk I read there are two choices. Either to align the scion to the side of the base (so cambium aligns on one side) or stick the scion across trying to find two contact points of cambium between the scion and the base. What’s best? Can you please help or point me to some resources I could explore. Greatly appreciated!
 

Shibui

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For successful graft there must be contact between cambium of both stock and scion. More cambium contact means greater chance of success. Scion across means only 2 small contact points while aligned on one side should mean 2 longer contacts.
Neither of these will give an attractive graft for many, many years.
There are many different grafting techniques. Sometimes it depends on the growers experience but sometimes different techniques suit different circumstances. If you can tell us what you want to graft and why there may be a better way. Pics always explain much kore than words.
 

Adamski77

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Thank you for your answers… I’m attaching the picture with overview of the situation… marked the area where I’m planning to graft and position of graft. I also marked potential graft so you can see the size difference… it’s probably 1/3rd to 1/4th of the stock.
Second picture is the overall view of the back of the tree. It’s a white pine and work in progress so there is several branches now that will not be there in the future… just didn’t want to go to hard on the tree in round one. But if I remove all that I plan to remove there will be simply no branch in this area going to the back which will result in no depth of the tree. It’s relatively young material but I don’t think there is any chances of buds in this particular area.
 

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Wires_Guy_wires

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If I were you I would try to loop a branch destined for removal over and see if you can do an approach graft instead of a scion graft.
 

Adamski77

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If I were you I would try to loop a branch destined for removal over and see if you can do an approach graft instead of a scion graft.
Thank you. Was working with the assumption that scion grafts work better on conifers. But your idea is great… have quite a few leggy branches that can be used for approach graft in this place. I’m doing this first time so probably going to fail anyway… but one more question on approach graft if I may. If I use the “tip” (meaning last year growth) of the branch for graft do I still need to expose cambium on it… other words do I need to scratch bark on the branch I’ll be using? Heard once the advise that if you use young shoots you do not have to do it… though this particular advise was for deciduous tree (trident maple).
 

Wires_Guy_wires

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I think you should expose cambium on scions, even if they're young. You want scar tissue to connect with scar tissue and without a looong wound, there's very little room for a connection. If that's what you're asking at least.

Scion grafts work well on conifers but you can have two failures and then you're done; so much scars and all, it might drop the branch. I've been rather unsuccesful in pine grafting but my approach grafts on pines had a 3/4 strike rate. It's just a matter of making the cut deep enough and really pushing the donor branch in there. You also don't need to protect the donor branch, and it can grow freely, which in my opinion is a huge advantage. Of course a wound cover is a must, but not the tape wrapping of the foliage. I've had juniper scions die on me because I left the wraps on for too long.
I also believe approach grafts are less bothered by late frosts, because there's an entire tree feeding both the donor and the receiver.
 

Shibui

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Need to take some care on really young scions. Scraping one side can sometimes kill the whole shoot. Probably better to move it along a little so you can graft the older section.
Exposing cambium definitely speeds up the process. Attaching a whole (young) shoot may work but could take 2-3 years instead of a few months.
Approach graft is much more certain because both sections are maintained by their own roots so they stay alive as long as it takes for the union to join. Even if alignment or cuts are not good, eventually as they grow contact will be made and a union formed.

Grafting shoots on a large conifer branch is usually done with side wedge graft. Cutting the branch off will stop sap flow so grafting is highly unlikely. Grafts are placed in the side of a living branch so the union heals quick. The trick is matching cambium on different ages of bark. I try to use one side of a cut in this sort of case. I have seen Japanese grafters use a chisel that is same size as scion to open a thin groove for the scion.
 

Adamski77

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Without trying will never learn so going to try approach graft… seems more certain and also easier to execute. Main points seem to be making sure the opening on the trunk is perfectly sized for the branch, flow of the sap in the trunk and branch are aligned and cambium in both parts have contact. Will bend some branch that is going to be removed later and try. In terms of timing I assume it’s also early spring, like for scion graft?
 

Wires_Guy_wires

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Without trying will never learn so going to try approach graft… seems more certain and also easier to execute. Main points seem to be making sure the opening on the trunk is perfectly sized for the branch, flow of the sap in the trunk and branch are aligned and cambium in both parts have contact. Will bend some branch that is going to be removed later and try. In terms of timing I assume it’s also early spring, like for scion graft?
Yes, or very late winter.
 

Shibui

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I approach graft any time of year (mild winters). Approach graft does not rely on quick union as both parts are kept alive indefinitely so timing matters far less than with scion grafts where quick union is essential.
Also opening on the branch to match the grafted branch is not quite as critical because both will callus and grow until the callus touches then a union can occur.
Of course closer match will give quicker union so try to get as close as you can.
 

Adamski77

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Not to create a new thread… topic the same… about grafts. Made this year first attempt with scion grafting… JBP. Pictures below. Graft was done on 5th of March so roughly 5 weeks ago. I know I should keep it wrapped till candle starts extending… I have an impression this is happening based on my daily observations… plus entire tree is pushing strong. My question is about timing for next steps… I know I should gradually start opening top of the “wrap” but concerned with timing. Do you think after 5 weeks anything can be happening already or I should wait more and candle will start “unwrapping” the grafting tape itself? I closed it firmly. Advise appreciated…
 

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My understanding is to wait until the scion bud starts visibly extending before opening just the tip of the wrapping.
 
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