GRAY OAK (QUERCUS GRISEA)

[MACH5]

I've had some dieback on smaller branching, but extremely strong push of new foliage on extension growth from last summer. I haven't messed with the roots at all despite the deteriorating collection pot. I am being pretty cautious in how I'm going at it. With this past winter's extremely unpredictable weather pattern, I've been even more cautious--just let it grow.

The new growth this spring was encouraging, however, some of the initial leaves had the same grey out as the leaves that were on it last summer--I suspect a fungal issue. However, since that initial problem, the tree put on dense growth

There seem to be two growth periods, as far as I can see. Early spring and mid-summer, which would make sense in timing--springtime rain, and the summer monsoon season in its native habitat. Stronger, but more localized, growth in the summer period.

As it did last June/July, the tree is pushing new growth on the two foot long extension shoots it grew out last summer. That new growth on the stronger shoots is moving at a half inch per day at this point. I expect them to extend as far as the shoots did last year.

I have been fertilizing with low phosphorous ferts at full strength all summer once a week. It's not a problem as the pumice drains pretty freely.

Insects don't like this tree --at all. Have had only a couple try to chew leaves, but they moved on since the leaves are thick and tough. Along with the fert, I'm also supplementing with Epsom salts every other week--a half teaspoon to a gallon. That helps toughen up the leaves. I do that for all my trees. Works OK.

Obviously, 'll have to post a photo soon.

This species is interesting. Dropping finer branches seems to be in its DNA, given the extensive deadwood on all of these I've seen. That wouldn't be surprising, as its native habitat would force that kind of thing, same as desert juniper species with their deadwood. Surprisingly, or maybe not, the tree seems to like water. I was trying to let the soil dry down, but wound up killing some new growth in early spring. I water every day, sometimes twice in this ungodly heat. Also covering the pot with a white cloth if the temps are forecast to top 90.

Thanks for sharing this info. I always wonder how yours is doing and happy to know that is doing well. The watering is interesting. I was doing the same as far as letting the soil dry down. I wonder if perhaps that's what may have killed some of my new growth up top? It is surprising to me since they do come some from semi arid locations but the fact that it is now containerized changes the equation I suppose. Good to know I may be able to up my watering and know it will appreciate it.

 

[Vin]

I wish someone in Texas would start working with all the oak species down there. Texas is the oak capital of the world, basically. While Europe has only 22 oak species, and Asia has 98, North America has 234. The U.S. has 60 within its borders. Over 40 those species grow in Texas, which is near the center of oak diversity in Northern Mexico.

Having spent a lot of time in east Texas, I can say that the oaks there are among the most expressive trees I've seen in the U.S. --and I've lived more than a few places in the lower 48. Some are more than equal to those much photographed ancient English oaks in the U.K. Thing is the oaks in Texas are out in the middle of nowhere with only longhorns, roadrunners and rattlesnakes to appreciate them. I don't know how all those species would take to bonsai culture, but I'd bet more than a few would.

This is a typical white oak growing in the scrub along a driveway down there. It is probably rooted to China, but that trunk is pretty awesome. There are about 10,000 more in a half mile radius...

We have many species along the panhandle. I've found some I thought about collecting with very deep fissured bark and although the trunks were awesome, the leaves are just too big.

 

[MACH5]

White oak is another one on my list as is the English oak. But good luck in getting one. They seem to be non existing in the US even as nursery stock? At least I have not seen them.

 

[rockm]

Thanks for sharing this info. I always wonder how yours is doing and happy to know that is doing well. The watering is interesting. I was doing the same as far as letting the soil dry down. I wonder if perhaps that's what may have killed some of my new growth up top? It is surprising to me since they do come some from semi arid locations but the fact that it is now containerized changes the equation I suppose. Good to know I may be able to up my watering and know it will appreciate it.

Deserts are funny places. Sometimes counterintuitive. The most common longer-lived, big desert region deciduous tree--the cottonwood--grows in areas where there is a lot of moisture, but not on the surface all the time--or at all. It's presence in what might look to be a granite floored desert landscape on the surface, shows the ground watertable is probably high and only a few feet below the surface.

For Grey oak, I was struck by the photos of the collection site you posted from Alvaro, as well as other photos online of it in native habitat. In all of them, there is considerable vegetation around them, including grasses--both live and dormant. That indicated to me that this species grows in areas that retain moisture--probably seasonally--the summer monsoon in the desert can produce extreme amount of water all at once but only for a limited time. I also have a feeling that die back is probably going to be an issue as these trees develop as bonsai. They're probably going to drop limbs and twigs regularly if they don't like what's happening to them-hard pruning, etc., although the extensive backbudding on old wood on your is an encouraging sign that replacement growth will result...

 

[MACH5]

Bummer about the branches, but I’m hoping for the best. I’ve been watching Alvaro’s site for a long time, but, even though he’s just a few hours away near Dallas, the Houston climate is SO different. Most of what he collects won’t do well here. But even though I live in the land of the Southern Live Oak, there are a some local native deciduous oaks around, particularly north of the city. I collected a Post Oak two years ago. It took to collection well and has done great in recovery. I gave it to a friend - here are a couple of pictures.

Spring after collection
View attachment 199661

Repot after first growing season
View attachment 199660

Earlier this spring
View attachment 199659

That's a nice one Scott. Looks like that one has more of the classic oak shaped leaf. The grey oak has pretty small leaves but wished they were more oak like.

 

[coh]

White oak is another one on my list as is the English oak. But good luck in getting one. They seem to be non existing in the US even as nursery stock? At least I have not seen them.

English oak exists, though often as grafted cultivars. I found one at a nursery a few years ago, it was a columnar type (tall/thin). It was cheap and I thought it might have bonsai potential so of course I bought it. But the base/roots were terrible and I decided to just plant it in the ground and let it be a yard tree rather than fight it with layering.

I am developing an English oak in my grow bed. Remember the one from the last National, with that big/gnarly base with all kinds of knobs...it's got that kind of base. Was just chopped for the second time this spring and I need to go in and do some selection of the rampant new growth. I got it as a seedling from someplace like Forest Farm, I think.

 

[markyscott]

That's a nice one Scott. Looks like that one has more of the classic oak shaped leaf. The grey oak has pretty small leaves but wished they were more oak like.

You’ll have to make a collecting trip down here - we can head out to my friend’s ranch, collect some oak trees, drink some Shiner’s and eat some brisket. Post Oak seem pretty hardy - I removed the tap root and pretty much bare rooted it during collection. I wasn’t sure it would survive but, as you see - no problem.

S

 

[barrosinc]

Deserts are funny places. Sometimes counterintuitive. The most common longer-lived, big desert region deciduous tree--the cottonwood--grows in areas where there is a lot of moisture, but not on the surface all the time--or at all. It's presence in what might look to be a granite floored desert landscape on the surface, shows the ground watertable is probably high and only a few feet below the surface.

For Grey oak, I was struck by the photos of the collection site you posted from Alvaro, as well as other photos online of it in native habitat. In all of them, there is considerable vegetation around them, including grasses--both live and dormant. That indicated to me that this species grows in areas that retain moisture--probably seasonally--the summer monsoon in the desert can produce extreme amount of water all at once but only for a limited time. I also have a feeling that die back is probably going to be an issue as these trees develop as bonsai. They're probably going to drop limbs and twigs regularly if they don't like what's happening to them-hard pruning, etc., although the extensive backbudding on old wood on your is an encouraging sign that replacement growth will result...

It might not be relevant, but... Santiago is not very humid at all in summer, and it doesnt rain that much (250mm of rain (10 inches))... we have acacia cavens growing everywhere which are my next project and these root down a long distance so the soil at top seems dry but they get water from way below. All the people that think they don't need too much water end up killing them. They must be airlayered to be able to collect them. They might be very similar to these oaks that get water from lower layers of water.

 

[rockm]

It might not be relevant, but... Santiago is not very humid at all in summer, and it doesnt rain that much (250mm of rain (10 inches))... we have acacia cavens growing everywhere which are my next project and these root down a long distance so the soil at top seems dry but they get water from way below. All the people that think they don't need too much water end up killing them. They must be airlayered to be able to collect them. They might be very similar to these oaks that get water from lower layers of water.

These oaks aren't deep rooted. The one I have was collected from a natural pot in a slab of granite. It had been growing there for a very very long time. My theory is they probably rely on seasonal rains, which can be wildly unpredictable, hence their ability to backbud on old wood and drop limbs as resources fluctuate...

 

[barrosinc]

These oaks aren't deep rooted. The one I have was collected from a natural pot in a slab of granite. It had been growing there for a very very long time. My theory is they probably rely on seasonal rains, which can be wildly unpredictable, hence their ability to backbud on old wood and drop limbs as resources fluctuate...

Sorry, I might have gotten confused by this:

This is a typical white oak growing in the scrub along a driveway down there. It is probably rooted to China,

big desert region deciduous tree--the cottonwood--grows in areas where there is a lot of moisture, but not on the surface all the time--or at all.

 

[rockm]

Sorry, I might have gotten confused by this:

Sorry for the confusion. The oak in my photo is a a white oak, different species.

The grey oak we're discussing is a more western species. I have a grey oak like the OP that was collected in New Mexico. Grey oak is native to WEST Texas.

That white oak in my photo in east Texas, 700 miles away. Texas is mostly NOT a desert...except for the western third.

East Texas gets heavy rainfall, at least compared to a desert.

 

[MACH5]

English oak exists, though often as grafted cultivars. I found one at a nursery a few years ago, it was a columnar type (tall/thin). It was cheap and I thought it might have bonsai potential so of course I bought it. But the base/roots were terrible and I decided to just plant it in the ground and let it be a yard tree rather than fight it with layering.

I am developing an English oak in my grow bed. Remember the one from the last National, with that big/gnarly base with all kinds of knobs...it's got that kind of base. Was just chopped for the second time this spring and I need to go in and do some selection of the rampant new growth. I got it as a seedling from someplace like Forest Farm, I think.

Yes I do remember well that English oak! Good luck with yours Chris. I do love them!!

 

[MACH5]

You’ll have to make a collecting trip down here - we can head out to my friend’s ranch, collect some oak trees, drink some Shiner’s and eat some brisket. Post Oak seem pretty hardy - I removed the tap root and pretty much bare rooted it during collection. I wasn’t sure it would survive but, as you see - no problem.

S

I'd love to and know we have talked about it. Perhaps if you guys want to have me again (hint hint) we can plan around it. Damn I still remember those nice Texas ribs!! Hurley took me to a nice place and when we were done I told him they were almost as good as the ones in Applebee's!! You should have seen his face!

 

[coh]

I'd love to and know we have talked about it. Perhaps if you guys want to have me again (hint hint) we can plan around it. Damn I still remember those nice Texas ribs!! Hurley took me to a nice place and when we were done I told him they were almost as good as the ones in Applebee's!! You should have seen his face!

You're lucky you made it out of there alive after a comment like that!

 

[MACH5]

You're lucky you made it out of there alive after a comment like that!

 

[markyscott]

...I told him they were almost as good as the ones in Applebee's...

You told him what??. That’s like saying that Shiner is almost as good as Budweiser - you’re lucky you didn’t get run out of town by a stampeding herd of longhorn, LOL.

Look forward to seeing you in September

S

 

[barrosinc]

I'd love to and know we have talked about it. Perhaps if you guys want to have me again (hint hint) we can plan around it. Damn I still remember those nice Texas ribs!! Hurley took me to a nice place and when we were done I told him they were almost as good as the ones in Applebee's!! You should have seen his face!

 

[defra]

How did this monster do this year ?

 

[MACH5]

How did this monster do this year ?

It did great! Was cut back and left just a few structural branches and shoots upon which I will build the canopy. In winter storage now and I anticipate budding strongly in the spring. I did not plan on wiring next year but looks strong so I think it will be fine to do so. Branches thicken up very quickly on this species so I need to start doing some work on them before they get too big.

 

[fredtruck]

This oak is going to be a wonderful bonsai.