Green Japanese Maple Design Help

jimlau

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I will be receiving this green Japanese maple. Any thoughts on which leader to choose, and where to chop it? The taller 1 has better flow, but the shorter 1 could maybe have the tree be shorter.

Also, how far above where I'd like the next leader to be do I cut the lead at?

I've included some edits on either choice. And the very low branch I plan to remove.

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Thanks.
 

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dbonsaiw

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I'm a little once bitten twice shy with JMs and now like to prune these back to existing branches. I never seem to get buds anywhere near where I want them on JMs and sometimes they just don't bud at all from a bare trunk. I'd probably work the roots, get it replanted and just leave it be. Wait to see what grows and then make decisions. Once you have lower branches you can prune as short as you want and grow from there. Here's a JM I just chopped from about 7 feet to about 18 inches. I left those branches just to keep the sap flowing up the tree - I want this tree to be shorter. I grew out the roots last year in anticipation of this cut and look forward to a massive amount of energy coming up from the roots with nowhere to go other than to form new buds lower down the trunk. Plus I will fertilize heavily. Once I see what grows I can decide on next steps.
 

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Cadillactaste

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You are showing but one front. I will say. Where it y's... the thicker branch there should always be taller.


Now...mine is a ryusen... chopped because it was decimated in winter 2013-14. Top was all dead. They can bud back...Same tree...in fall show 2021.

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FB_IMG_1672184798448.jpgFB_IMG_1672189761623.jpg
 

BobbyLane

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I'm a little once bitten twice shy with JMs and now like to prune these back to existing branches. I never seem to get buds anywhere near where I want them on JMs and sometimes they just don't bud at all from a bare trunk. I'd probably work the roots, get it replanted and just leave it be. Wait to see what grows and then make decisions. Once you have lower branches you can prune as short as you want and grow from there. Here's a JM I just chopped from about 7 feet to about 18 inches. I left those branches just to keep the sap flowing up the tree - I want this tree to be shorter. I grew out the roots last year in anticipation of this cut and look forward to a massive amount of energy coming up from the roots with nowhere to go other than to form new buds lower down the trunk. Plus I will fertilize heavily. Once I see what grows I can decide on next steps.
Cant really tell whats going on with some of yours lol, is it in the ground or is it in a pot buried in mulch.
 

jimlau

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You are showing but one front. I will say. Where it y's... the thicker branch there should always be taller.


Now...mine is a ryusen... chopped because it was decimated in winter 2013-14. Top was all dead. They can bud back...Same tree...in fall show 2021.

View attachment 477890

View attachment 477891View attachment 477892
I did include another vantage point or 2, tho with editing out the shorter leader.
 

dbonsaiw

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Cant really tell whats going on with some of yours lol, is it in the ground or is it in a pot buried in mulch.
LOL. In a large nursery pot still buried in mulch. Didn't see a reason to take it out just yet and I have my hands full shuffling the stuff in the raj.
 

Shibui

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Use several factors to choose which option will be better.
Start with roots: Find the best view of the nebari regardless of trunk or branches.
Next check trunk line. Look for the best trunk flow, bends, taper, lack of scars, etc.
Follow that with branches but as this tree doesn't have any skip that.
Look for features - dead sections, shari, etc.
Finally look for faults - crossing branches, dead sections, hollows, reverse taper, etc.

Now consider whether any of the choices above coincide. Usually the choice with the most positives will be the best option to choose.
If you plan to remove that lowest trunk I'd try to steer clear of that as the front as it will leave a big scar for many years. That side also has the big root sticking out so not so good there either.
2nd pic gives the least visible scars but also least trunk taper and not much bend either.
3rd pic shows best taper though still not much but nebari is one sided there.

New buds will usually form closer to the chops so chopping too high can be counterproductive and you'll need to try again in a couple of years if no low buds pop.
Agree that JM can be fickle. I've also had some failures when chopping bigger trees to bare wood but most will grow.
Shorter is always good for bonsai. Need to allow for growing an entire new apex which will typically be as tall as the lower trunk so initial chop at 2 feet tall will often yield a completed bonsai at around 4 feet????? That's a real big bonsai!
 

Canada Bonsai

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Here is some inspiration for that lower trunk/branch of yours

Some good ones in here too for you:
 

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clem

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Maybe you could cut the big main trunk on the back, you would get a big scar but this scar would be on the back.. Dunno if this little trunk comes too far on the front (towards the viewer) or is fine to make the new trunk line ->
s-l1vd600.jpg

IMO the most carefull is to cut on your green line the main trunk, and see what buds are produced later.. and then choose a trunk line (on the main trunk or on this smaller trunk on the front) depending on available buds
 

Gabler

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Maybe you could cut the big main trunk on the back, you would get a big scar but this scar would be on the back.. Dunno if this little trunk comes too far on the front (towards the viewer) or is fine to make the new trunk line ->
View attachment 478213

IMO the most carefull is to cut on your green line the main trunk, and see what buds are produced later.. and then choose a trunk line (on the main trunk or on this smaller trunk on the front) depending on available buds

I was about to suggest the same thing.
 

leatherback

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You have a whole year to think about what to chop, if the picture is recent.

I would work the roots a little, get them sorted out a bit better and allow the tree to grow freely for the year. That will build new roots, and lots of energy reserves with which to start the tree next year.
 

jimlau

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Maybe you could cut the big main trunk on the back, you would get a big scar but this scar would be on the back.. Dunno if this little trunk comes too far on the front (towards the viewer) or is fine to make the new trunk line ->
View attachment 478213

IMO the most carefull is to cut on your green line the main trunk, and see what buds are produced later.. and then choose a trunk line (on the main trunk or on this smaller trunk on the front) depending on available buds
Here are a few more photos, and a possible solution. I think the lowest branch you marked may be too thin, so there would be a drastic change in thickness between it and the base?

I like the line of the thickest leader, but it doesn't have much taper aznd the tree would have to be too tall {>3 feet}. This thing is a beast, with about a 5" base.

20230324_112356.jpg20230324_112829.jpg



20230323_181443 B.jpg
 

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Gabler

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I think the lowest branch you marked may be too thin, so there would be a drastic change in thickness between it and the base?

It’ll thicken up if you let it grow out lots of branches. Wherever you chop it, you’ll need lots of growth above that point to heal the chop wound. Once you get it thick enough and the scar on the back has had an opportunity to heal over, chop it again.

Chopping to the lowest branch also has the advantage of putting the scar on the back of the tree instead of the front.
 

jimlau

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It’ll thicken up if you let it grow out lots of branches. Wherever you chop it, you’ll need lots of growth above that point to heal the chop wound. Once you get it thick enough and the scar on the back has had an opportunity to heal over, chop it again.

Chopping to the lowest branch also has the advantage of putting the scar on the back of the tree instead of the front.
So do you mean chop everything off except for the bottom branch? Where you refer to lots of branches needed to heal, you mean future branches growing out from the bottom branch? Then once it has thickened up enough, cut that low branch back to where I want it to establish a new leader on it?

If instead I chop off just the top thick leader, do I cut it flush to the trunk, and even gouge out a bit of trunk, or do I first leave a stump?

Thanks.
 

jimlau

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Something like this? It would be a mighty big chop in the back.

s-l1vd600 c .jpg
 

Gabler

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Something like this? It would be a mighty big chop in the back.

View attachment 478562

Yeah. Allow a new leader to extend from the new apex after the chop. Let the leader grow several years without pruning it to thicken up and heal over the chop. Once the chop is healed and the trunk has a more smooth taper, repeat the process for the next section of trunk to continue developing a gradual taper to the final apex after the last chop.

It can be tricky to heal such a large chop, so in the alternative, you could make the back into the new front and chop off the lowest and highest branches. The rear, upper branch would be the new trunkline.

Wherever you chop, be sure to hollow it out slightly, so it heals over more smoothly.
 

jimlau

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Yeah. Allow a new leader to extend from the new apex after the chop. Let the leader grow several years without pruning it to thicken up and heal over the chop. Once the chop is healed and the trunk has a more smooth taper, repeat the process for the next section of trunk to continue developing a gradual taper to the final apex after the last chop.

It can be tricky to heal such a large chop, so in the alternative, you could make the back into the new front and chop off the lowest and highest branches. The rear, upper branch would be the new trunkline.

Wherever you chop, be sure to hollow it out slightly, so it heals over more smoothly.
Thanks. If I go for the middle branch as the leader, is it too aggressive to remove both the bottom and top branches after I get the buds needed?
 

leatherback

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There is something strange about the two trunks. It *could* be that they are not merged, except for at root level.

And I will repeat. No drastic work this year.
 

jimlau

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There is something strange about the two trunks. It *could* be that they are not merged, except for at root level.

And I will repeat. No drastic work this year.
You mean how the green of the bottom branch not seeming to belong to the rest of the gray base? Maybe a reason not to make it the leader? You know, next year?

Actually, do you believe that large root ball is not enough roots/energy?
 
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