Greetings and my first dumb questions!

[ceekay]

Hello, from North Dakota!

I have been curious about bonsai trees all of my life, but had never really looked into them. Now that I am older and (a bit) more patient, I would like to try my hand at growing a bonsai!

I have two trees that would make decent candidates; the first are our Amur Maple trees that act as a natural fence between our and our neighbor's yards, and the second is the Bur Oak we planted many years ago in memory of my late father... The latter being the more personally important project, I will most likely start with just the Maple cuttings (as I've read elsewhere that oaks are not easy trees to bonsai, and maples are at least easier than oaks)...

My first newbie questions, though, are as follows:

1. What is the best time to start rooting or cutting shoots? Early spring, or later spring/summer? I am in North Dakota, so our winters are rough and can be lengthy...

2. I have a large sunroom on the back of my home that emulates a greenhouse quite well; our christmas cactus in the room blooms at least once a month, near-constantly, all year round, and most other plants do extremely well in this room due to the abundance of sunlight and the privacy tint shade cutting just enough sunlight to make it not "100% direct" sunlight, as if it were outside. This newbie question actually presents two sub-questions:

-2a. Since this greenhouse effect is so prominent, would it be at least logical to assume I could keep temperate trees in this room, as opposed to keeping them "outdoor-only"?
-2b. Since North Dakota winters are indeed so rough and lengthy, would it be a good idea to bring the bonsai into the room for winter, or should I move them to my heated garage (~45f) for the winter? Or, would it be best to leave them outside in the snow? After all, the parent trees have weathered decades worth of winters so far without incident...

3. What is the smallest cutting and initial size recommended for maples and oaks? I have seen quite small maples, but there's not too terribly much on bur oaks as bonsai trees (at least, not nearly as much as there is for maple bonsai)...


Thanks,
- CK

 

[JoeR]

I would personally skip thw oak for the time being and focus on the maple. You should start it from seed rather than cuttings, much easier.


Armur can take the cold, I would leave them (protected) outside all year.

 

[Dav4]

45 F is too warm to overwinter any cold hardy, temperate tree., which would absolutely require a somewhat lengthy cold, dormant period each year. Amurs will do fine in your climate with some winter protection.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

(1) Depends on the tree. A little more info?
(2a) Depends on the tree. Some deciduous bonsai can be quite flexible in their environment - or quite demanding. I have seen Chinese Elms be cold-hardy (overwinter in an unheated garage in Chicago) and yet do quite well in an outdoors environment in Southern California. A little more info here would be great.
(2b) You can't overwinter anything in 45 degrees. Even Southern Cal can get colder than that. If you have a cold hardy tree, give them a deep freeze, but protect them from wind and drying out. Window wells, a cold frame, an unheated garage or greenhouse works great. Cover them with snow - snow is both a great insulator and will prevent them from drying out. I used to put snowballs on my trees that were overwintering in my unheated garage in Chicago... it was easy to see when they needed more water I would just bring in another snowball.
(3) Burr oaks are cold hardy and they NEED a deep freeze to rest and survive. There is no such thing as a smallest cutting and initial size - you can root cuttings as small as a toothpick... though oaks are harder to root than maples or elms. If you have a burr oak in your yard, you might consider an air-layer versus a cutting... you can start with a pretty big trunk if you air-layer an oak branch. Oaks are tough (though not impossible) to air-layer. Just make sure to do it in early spring and use an appropriately strong rooting hormone (0.8% IBA)

 

[Tieball]

I believe 45f is way to warm for winter storage of trees that need dormancy. My trees, West Michigan cold winters, stay outdoors all year. Some simply protected from our -20 windschills. Other than the windscreen the trees are covered with snow and ice for about 4 months. The trees like it that way.

For kick starting your bonsai journey, I recommend you focus on deciduous trees that are native to your area. I suspect that your area also has some fantastic juniper type trees that will entice your interest. Look into trees that enjoy the outdoors throughout the year. Trees belong outdoors. Having one or two ficus that can be stored indoors during winter is good....assuming you are at home for most care needs.

If you have a botanical garden nearby, visit the garden and ask questions about growing conditions locally for yourself. I have found gardeners enjoying sharing knowledge with interested local people....for both indoor and outdoor trees. You may find a lifetime friend for when you have questions and want real local information. The garden person may also have tree recommendations for you that might not seem native right away. Botanical garden staff are good contacts for discussion....they are not selling trees they happen to have. They are not convincing you to buy some tree they recommend that they just happened to have in stock and on sale.

Cactus are another world and likely do well in a dry, warm indoor area during the year. I see them indoors at botanical gardens everywhere. In homes.....hmmmm...I am cautious and do not grow cactus indoors. Asian culture suggests that keeping a cactus in the house (the area where you live) will cause arguments. So....I seem to find arguments on my own and do not need the additional assistance of a cactus.

Have fun with you trees! Try to find more than "sticks".... But perhaps, because you're in start up mode, don't open your wallet to much right away. Those sticks take a long time to grow into an admired bonsai size. Take a moderately slower pace when obtaining trees. Digging and collecting locally around you is a great way to start. Really.

 

[ceekay]

Yay, information!

Okay, probably the last dumb question, then it's wait-til-spring time....

If I were to, say, find an Amur Maple sprout poking through my lawn before I mow for the first time (they are everywhere in our lawn every spring but never last longer than June or July because of constant mowing), would it be logical to try and transplant that into bonsai pot/soil, or should I leave them be and stick with seed/clone origins?

Also also, thanks specifically for the clarification on the "protection during winter" thing.... I've never had to protect garden crops or anything from winters, and I was somewhat worried that the hard freezes would be fatal to a certain percentage of very young bonsai, since they are stunted and such. The way some of the online resources were sounding about winter, I was figuring I'd have to be on my deck in the -50F range adjusting tiny little electric heaters for them (I don't want to get THAT nuts with this hobby.... But then, that's what I said about gunsmithing shortly before buying a TIG welder and pricing out mills, lathes, and CNC's....).... But, if Tieball in MI can just set some wind screens over them and they'll be fine, I've no more winter worries. Thanks, Tieball!

I still feel the need to try my hand at the bur oak... The warnings about them being difficult and definitely not for newbies like myself aren't enough deterrent for me... But, they are enough to make me feel less bad about ultimately failing.

Thanks, Bonsai Nuts!

 

[Potawatomi13]

By all means dig a seedling from yard. Go for one with biggest trunk if any choice. Oak fan as you are. Do not be afraid of oaks or naysayers. Generally some comment like "leaves too big for good Bonsai". Bah humbug baloney! Just grow bigger tree. Happy New year and welcome to Bonsai with best wishes for much success.

 

[Tieball]

But, if Tieball in MI can just set some wind screens over them and they'll be fine, I've no more winter worries. Thanks, Tieball!

I'll see if I have any photos of my screening. I don't think I took any. But I can describe it in the meantime. This is just what I do and it does work for my trees. Here goes....
I start with a fencing material from Lowes (Home Depot has the same). The fencing is 1/2" grid and 36" tall. I cut the fencing into lengths enough to make a 24" diameter cylinder shape. This is a size that works around my trees. The fence cylinder is stuck to the ground using long u-shaped holders (I think the actual use is to hold landscape ground cloth down). They work.

The fencing has two purposes for me. First, it keeps the deer and rabbits from getting access to my trees. Second, it is the skeleton to wrap a fence cloth to for windblock.

The windblock I use is actually that green fencing usually seen at major PGA Golf events. I have several rolls, however, the cloth cut for a fence can be used several years with no damage seen yet. I've used the same fence covering for 6 years now. Describing at a little more....the fencing is like a 90% sun shield or greater. I just attach the fencing shield cloth using small leftover pieces of bonsai wire.

The top of the cylinder is left open. I want air to circulate. I also want snow to accumulate. I can put my hand inside the cylinder and feel about a 10 degree difference from the outside. And, all the drying sub zero winds are held away from the tree inside. I have never put in a thermometer to measure....just my bare arm. I'm so scientific! The snow accumulation insulates and keeps moisture available. The snow that accumulates stays all winter. The shield also blocks the sun which is very low in the sky over winter....so, the tree shielded is fully shaded all winter, yet there is light available. Make sense?

In spring I simple unwrap the cloth fencing. Put it away and leave the wire fencing up. Keep in mind as I describe this that my trees are in the ground. There is a good herd of deer constantly as well as rabbits and plenty of wild turkeys.

I checked my files but don't find any photos of the barrier. I never thought I'd need one. I am away right now. I can't take photos now. But if desired and still interested, I can take a couple photos in spring with the shield on and the shield off. If helpful, I could mail you a swatch of the cloth I use for the cover...again in the spring. Let me know if really needed and we can connect.

 

[sorce]

CK....
Welcome to Crazy.

If you get those seedling every year, it sounds like there should be one, or more, somewhere around that have grown bigger.....
Amidst that "fence", behind a garage, in the neighbors yard, in a gutter, somewhere....there must be one bigger that you can dig! I'd find those!
And keep all the seedlings too.

The Oak, start it from acorn, in a pot. A few even, this way if nothing else works, you will still have them started.

Tieball got you right with the windblock.

Natives don't need much protection.

Find your substrate parts now for spring!

Sorce

 

[Tieball]

Additional note. Full agreement with Sorce.

My real native trees.....American Elm, Beech, Oak, Hornbeam and Field Maple do not have any protection during the winter. They just sit in the ground all winter...open to all the weather elements. And the trees do perfectly fine.

My windscreen protected trees are Zelkova and Hackberry (Celtis Sinensis) which are not common to me in my area.

So, as Sorce commented about natives, ....they don't need much protection really. The trees are used to the outdoor life.

 

[sorce]

Additional note! Full agreement with tieball !

If you can afford anything protection, as in wind block, mulching, in can't hurt!

It's that warmth....the over protection....that causes trouble.

Odd....our First snow there in, what was it? November? Only lasted 2 days and we had 60's again....that snow put them to sleep. If I had them protected from it..like a garage, or something....they may have not went to sleep, then, this last weekend, when it went from 40s to 4, they would have took a bad hit.

Observation is key!

Sorce

 

[armetisius]

If bur oak it must be then grow one.
Gather some seed; knick the hull; soak over night; chill for around 90 days and then plant.
Something you might want to try is that weedy Siberian Pea Shrub. Everything to the good
for them being good candidates for bonsai--loved the seedlings I grew--but they don't like
our Summer heat and died here. Absolutely no winter protection needed.