Ground growing options...

[Clorgan]

So I'm looking into ground growing. Haven't delved (love that word) into it yet, due to being in a new build hous... There's restrictions on planting trees (don't think we're allowed large trees planted), poor new build soil and a partner who is a little apprehensive about any drastic garden digging.

I've been happy with trees in pots until now, but as several people have said I know ground growing is desirable!

Photos attached of the garden. Middle/main garden area is a no go (partner wants to keep most of the lawn empty and I agree - future kids will need playing space!)

I have taken over the right side with plants, majority potted as you can see. Option to plant in the ground there along the fence, not sure if this is adequate space?

Only other option is behind the garage (last photo). So I'm pretty limited really.

Any thoughts on where would be suitable? If anywhere. Or if grow beds would be a better option?

Or if all that fails, I may look into an allotment... No idea how much they cost. And I do worry that if it's not on my doorstep it'll get neglected!

Hope these ramblings make sense I'm in half term - bored and filling my time with research!

 

[Lutonian]

If your property is leasehold or rented there may be rules on what you can do to the garden/property if your property is freehold as long as they don't cut your neighbours view or light should be ok to ground grow. I grow a lot of my stuff in large pots because if you dig a few inches down in my garden its solid chalk. Allotments are cheap down my way £30ish a year but the waiting lists are very long I have been waiting for two years now.

 

[Clorgan]

If your property is leasehold or rented there may be rules on what you can do to the garden/property if your property is freehold as long as they don't cut your neighbours view or light should be ok to ground grow. I grow a lot of my stuff in large pots because if you dig a few inches down in my garden its solid chalk. Allotments are cheap down my way £30ish a year but the waiting lists are very long I have been waiting for two years now.

Thanks for this! It's freehold - but I'm sure it's something like 5 years until you're allowed to plant anything substantial. Will look into it properly. Yeah our soil is the same - pretty awful. I'd be planning on putting quite tough species in though - currently a hornbeam and field maple, so hopefully that wouldn't be a huge issue.

I just called about an allotment - similar price but long wait list, and they don't allow trees at all. Is this a common thing? Looked at another site and they only allow 'dwarf trees'?

 

[Lutonian]

when I asked about planting trees in the allotment I was told as long as they do not over grow or shade out someone else lot it would be ok also I would have to remove them when I give up the plot. different councils or allotment associations have different rules. Raised bed can help with bad soil most things will grow for me just not anything that like acid soils. Regarding the 5 years rule I have not heard of this ( unfortunately I'm a estate agent) check your deeds and paperwork.

 

[Clorgan]

when I asked about planting trees in the allotment I was told as long as they do not over grow or shade out someone else lot it would be ok also I would have to remove them when I give up the plot. different councils or allotment associations have different rules. Raised bed can help with bad soil most things will grow for me just not anything that like acid soils. Regarding the 5 years rule I have not heard of this ( unfortunately I'm a estate agent) check your deeds and paperwork.

That's good to know thanks, will carry on looking for places. I'd much prefer in my garden if possible though, whether that's in the ground or a grow bed. Do you think either of the spaces I have would be adequate size wise?

Will look into the deeds, I just remember when we purchased there being a few rules like this, some being quite odd! I know in my parent's new build they aren't allowed more than 3 domesticated animals!

 

[Clorgan]

The following is in the tenancy agreement of an allotment near me...can't decide whether this means species such as a hornbeam (which left to it's own devices would grow much larger than 3m) would be a no no, or if it'd be OK as long as it is kept small?

'not plant any tree, shrub, hedge or bush that will grow above 3 meters in height that is not for food use without first obtaining the Trust's permission'

 

[sorce]

I think grow beds make the most sense because the thing about kids.....they can eat! So you'll enjoy the space to grow some veg in when they bless the world with their presence.

It's kinda lucky that you get to plan kids around bonsai. Go for no Birthdays during repotting season!

Is that your neighbors gutter you gotta cut to get water? Interesting property lines.

Sorce

 

[Clorgan]

I think grow beds make the most sense because the thing about kids.....they can eat! So you'll enjoy the space to grow some veg in when they bless the world with their presence.

It's kinda lucky that you get to plan kids around bonsai. Go for no Birthdays during repotting season!

Is that your neighbors gutter you gotta cut to get water? Interesting property lines.

Sorce

Very good points there Sorce, grow beds looking like a good option...I mean there's at least a few years until we'll be thinking of mini-mes, but always good to be prepared!

Or am I just overthinking this completely? Could I just plonk the ol' hornbeam in the ground near the fence as long as it's kept smallish? If I didn't let it grow taller than the fence would there be enough space root wise, or could the roots disrupt the fence/hassle the neighbours?

It is yes...interesting is one word to describe the thinking behind certain features of these new builds. It's also interesting that the kitchen door needs to be closed to be able to open the freezer

 

[sorce]

No such thing as overthinking!

We lived in a place once where the trim for a door was removed to jam the fridge in, then the trim was replaced. Couldn't move the fridge out. We dropped keys or something important behind it once, so I went "Fishing" in the dust. Found a bag of catnip and and antichild device. Eeeew. That musta been a weird party!

The place we're in now has the ever popular selling point...."a Kitchen Island"! Oh great, except for when there is no room for it! What a giant pain this thing is, especially when it gets your hip!

Anyway....

There was no overthinking done in these builds. Maybe no thinking at all, except for that guided by greed!

Sorce

 

[Lutonian]

I think you would get away with planting trees as long as it doesn't get too big or bother anyone, someone has to report you for action to be taken.

 

[Clorgan]

No such thing as overthinking!

We lived in a place once where the trim for a door was removed to jam the fridge in, then the trim was replaced. Couldn't move the fridge out. We dropped keys or something important behind it once, so I went "Fishing" in the dust. Found a bag of catnip and and antichild device. Eeeew. That musta been a weird party!

The place we're in now has the ever popular selling point...."a Kitchen Island"! Oh great, except for when there is no room for it! What a giant pain this thing is, especially when it gets your hip!

Anyway....

There was no overthinking done in these builds. Maybe no thinking at all, except for that guided by greed!

Sorce

Can't decide if I'd like to have been at that party or not

 

[Clorgan]

I think you would get away with planting trees as long as it doesn't get too big or bother anyone, someone has to report you for action to be taken.

Great thanks! Guessing root spread wouldn't be an issue, as long as it's a little away from the fence. Cheers for your help, much appreciated!

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Note that "trees for food use" are allowed. Crab apples, cherries, ume, plums, persimmons, all are used for food, so technically, any fruiting tree could be either for bonsai, or food when the inspectors come around.

Myself, I would prefer raised beds for sizing up stock versus planting in level ground. This makes digging up a tree after a couple years much easier. Also means you don't have lay down on your belly to do pruning. I'm too fat and old to get down on the ground anymore, not unless there is someone to help me get up. If possible, the beds should be along the north fence, so they get maximum sun exposure.

My soil is pretty poor, and very difficult to dig in, so I prefer to size up trees in over size pots. Pots also allow you to lift the tree to a good level for working on the tree. And to rotate the tree so sun gets to all sides evenly over the coarse of a growing season.

 

[Clorgan]

Note that "trees for food use" are allowed. Crab apples, cherries, ume, plums, persimmons, all are used for food, so technically, any fruiting tree could be either for bonsai, or food when the inspectors come around.

Myself, I would prefer raised beds for sizing up stock versus planting in level ground. This makes digging up a tree after a couple years much easier. Also means you don't have lay down on your belly to do pruning. I'm too fat and old to get down on the ground anymore, not unless there is someone to help me get up. If possible, the beds should be along the north fence, so they get maximum sun exposure.

My soil is pretty poor, and very difficult to dig in, so I prefer to size up trees in over size pots. Pots also allow you to lift the tree to a good level for working on the tree. And to rotate the tree so sun gets to all sides evenly over the coarse of a growing season.

Great point about the fruit trees...I've just acquired a lovely fuji cherry

All good points well made - thank you! Maybe larger pots or grow boxes are the best option, at least for now anyway

 

[Lutonian]

Great point about the fruit trees...I've just acquired a lovely fuji cherry

All good points well made - thank you! Maybe larger pots or grow boxes are the best option, at least for now anyway

Fuji cherry's are fun trees

 

[Mike Corazzi]

Never "push" a homeowner/renter association. They can cause more problems than your lawyer can handle.

As for kids needing "play space" they will need a tree to hang the tire from and another one or two for the treehouse or fort.

 

[Clorgan]

@Lutonian Yeah I'm excited about this one - think it could make a nice little shohin. Looking forward to the flowers, spring can't come soon enough. Here it is-

Delve into a newbies garden! 😎

First purchase of the year! Prunus kojo-no-mai, intended for a potted tree for the garden... However after seeing this link... http://bonsai4me.com/AdvTech/ATCherryBonsaiProgressionSeries.html ... I'm tempted by a cute lil mame/shohin. Any thoughts? 😊 Unfortunately wasn't able to dig...

www.bonsainut.com

 

[Forsoothe!]

Leo right about the south side of that north fence, good place to grow in the sun, but I would stick to large pots instead in-ground growing for your particular situation. I have deed restrictions and have been the building committee chair and I can tell you that associations will go to the ends of the world to enforce restrictions. If the by-laws say you need to consult them before planting, they mean business and it's not worth the grief to skirt their authority. And remember, committees are generally made up of people looking to exercise control and are often dominated by control freaks. They want to be tested...

I have the luxury to have all growing methods available, but I still use giant decorative pots that are moveable (with a handcart) and plants can grow in these for many years. The best part about pot growing is the plant is easier to repot and roots are more contained. Left to their own devices they grow long roots and after two growing seasons the feeder roots are usually far away from the trunk. Also, you can amend the soil in a pot to be exactly what you want it to be and water & fertilize very exactly. That funny looking grass is obviously not Kentucky Bluegrass which may tell you something about the soil conditions there.

Along with that south facing fence for sunny plants you have the north facing wall where JM want to be in the heat of summer, June 1st to Aug 15th for me. You can overwinter JM in full sun and grow in full sun until June 1st and after August 15th and get great growth without crispy leaves. Some pansy-assed varieties need more coddling, but most grow well that way.

 

[Clorgan]

Leo right about the south side of that north fence, good place to grow in the sun, but I would stick to large pots instead in-ground growing for your particular situation. I have deed restrictions and have been the building committee chair and I can tell you that associations will go to the ends of the world to enforce restrictions. If the by-laws say you need to consult them before planting, they mean business and it's not worth the grief to skirt their authority. And remember, committees are generally made up of people looking to exercise control and are often dominated by control freaks. They want to be tested...

I have the luxury to have all growing methods available, but I still use giant decorative pots that are moveable (with a handcart) and plants can grow in these for many years. The best part about pot growing is the plant is easier to repot and roots are more contained. Left to their own devices they grow long roots and after two growing seasons the feeder roots are usually far away from the trunk. Also, you can amend the soil in a pot to be exactly what you want it to be and water & fertilize very exactly. That funny looking grass is obviously not Kentucky Bluegrass which may tell you something about the soil conditions there.

Along with that south facing fence for sunny plants you have the north facing wall where JM want to be in the heat of summer, June 1st to Aug 15th for me. You can overwinter JM in full sun and grow in full sun until June 1st and after August 15th and get great growth without crispy leaves. Some pansy-assed varieties need more coddling, but most grow well that way.

Yes, think pots are a safer bet! Was exploring the options - but you're right, I don't think it's worth the hassle.

The soil is awful, when we dug to do the patio we found all sorts under there, really crappy stuff! All these points have swayed be back to pots for the garden. May look into an allotment further though.

Very wary of the positioning of the maple in the barrel - definitely not a great place for it come summer, did get a little frazzled last year. Was a silly place to put it, you live and learn! Will definitely need to get it shifted before summer arrives, will be a chore of a job I'm sure. Was limited on choice though - the house wall (north of the garden) gets crazy hot in summer so couldn't put it near that. Useful for some species but definitely not a maple I put one of my plants near it last year, within a few hours it had done a fair bit of damage.

 

[BobbyLane]

If your property is leasehold or rented there may be rules on what you can do to the garden/property if your property is freehold as long as they don't cut your neighbours view or light should be ok to ground grow. I grow a lot of my stuff in large pots because if you dig a few inches down in my garden its solid chalk. Allotments are cheap down my way £30ish a year but the waiting lists are very long I have been waiting for two years now.

if planting trees on tiles with bonsai in mind i would of thought a few inches deep would be fine. one could simply mound the soil up if you need a few more inches like when building a grow bed, then cover with matting to keep moisture in. my trees in the allotment are only buried 8-10in deep some 6-8.