Ground growing pines

[ysrgrathe]

I was thinking to create a planting bed next year to ground grow some JBP. I am in PA 6b. We have heavy clay soil and get quite a bit of rain - 40+ inches per year, a lot of it in winter/spring which waterlogs the ground. I believe the ground is too wet for pines. I've had good success growing a landscape limber pine in a raised bed in native soil, so my plan is to create a low (~12") raised bed of something.

If I wanted to build a good growing bed, what would be the best substrate? One option is to just use the local clay. I can get the following in economic quantities:

• local clay topsoil
• river gravel (pea gravel size, ~1/4")
• concrete sand (40% grit > 1mm, 60% finer sand)
• napa 8822
• turface
• might be able to get 1/8" haydite

I've had good success growing seedlings in 60% chicken grit 30% peat 10% compost. I cannot seem to find chicken grit or any crushed granite by the ton though.

Here in the east we cannot get lava or pumice economically in the sizes appropriate for bonsai. I import it for my pots but I can't afford to purchase by the yard.

 

[Anthony]

Thought of tree in bonsai soil in a colander and then into something that breaks up and improves drainage in the ground soil ?
Xmas
Anthony

 

[ysrgrathe]

Thought of tree in bonsai soil in a colander and then into something that breaks up and improves drainage in the ground soil ?

Escape method? That's a possibility.

 

[petegreg]

@ysrgrathe , look at your outside thermometer, or what is your lowest recorded winter temperature? Zone 6b in ground doesn't have to be safe for JBPs in winter. Something bigger and portable could work.

 

[GGB]

@ysrgrathe where in PA are you? I feel like there's more of us on the forum than before. Also to add to the topic, I grow mine out in garden soil, peanut shells, and whatever rock I have to mix in. I grow a lot of different pine species. Some grow out wildly in it and others are probably a little "wet" but nothing ever dies in my grow bed

 

[ysrgrathe]

@petegreg I just looked at a couple of years of temperature data and we reliably have days/weeks below 10 degrees F (-12C), and reasonable odds of a day or two just below zero (-18C). This maps pretty well to the USDA zone 6b (minimum temp in the 0 to -5F range).

@GGB I'm in Pittsburgh. I'm jealous, I feel like there are more bonsai resources on the eastern side of the state! Can you elaborate on "mixing in rock?" Curious what you are doing there.

 

[CWTurner]

peanut shells

Never heard of this. Where do you get them, and are they chopped up or just the kind of shell you get from cracking your own peanuts?
CW

 

[GGB]

Bummer, still no bonsai buddies in my immediate area. And by mixing in rock, I mean literally adding rocks to the garden bed. Chicken grit, old bonsai soil (I use lava heavy mixes) and just straight up rocks that I find around. I turn the soil a little here and there to mix it up nice. Like I've said before on this forum, I'm no master, but I have grown hundreds of pines, yamadori and from seed with a very low / nearly non-existent death rate. It's my favorite genus, and maybe part of my success is because my material is so young. I certainly wouldn't treat a finished bonsai the way I treat my "maybe-someday-this'll-look-like-something" material. I'm just getting going in the hobby and I'm young enough to play with seeds. I'm not sure what kind of material you'll be working with

 

[GGB]

@CWTurner I get big ass bags of roasted peanuts. as I eat them I'm careful to squeeze dead center. The shell will always pop clean in half once you get a feel. I save all the "halved shells" and at some point during the winter when I'm itching to garden I break the shells by hand into appropriate sizes, usually just in half once more. My bonsai collection is small. But you could do it mechanically too I'm sure. The idea is the peanut shells hold water, and are slow to break down BUT they do break down, which I like. Because it slowly adds nutrients to the soil. And amazingly enough, the squirrels have been ignoring the shells. Also the half dome shapes end up cupping water when upside down or creating air pockets when right side up. experimentation, I have no proof of anything but so far so good

 

[vicn]

I've had luck growing JBP in heavy clay by mixing haydite into it to improve drainage. I removed several inches of soil, layed out some really thick plastic to try keeping roots shallow and spreading, then replaced the soil and mixed in haydite. You can probably just plant them in your existing soil and they will do fine.

 

[jeanluc83]

Consider growing pitch pines. They are cold hardy in your area and very easy to grow from seed. I have had reasonable success with them so far. My first batch will be in their 4th season next year. They still have a way to go but they are getting there.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

I would add composed bark to you soil for the raised bed. Fresh bark is okay if you make the bed then leave it sit half a year. Modest amount of composted sawdust would be good too.

 

[CWTurner]

I get big ass bags of roasted peanuts. as I eat them I'm careful to squeeze dead center. The shell will always pop clean in half once you get a feel. I save all the "halved shells" and at some point during the winter when I'm itching to garden I break the shells by hand into appropriate sizes, usually just in half once more.

I'm a peanut guy myself. Never thought of saving the shells. Next time I get a bag of unsalteds. I'll put them in my grow beds.
CW

 

[GGB]

Ah yeah! good footnote - unsalted

 

[Rusty Davis]

@jeanluc83 any pics of the 4 year pines? I have a small garden 8x14 that I'm considering turning it a bonsai playground for Juniper and pines.

 

[jeanluc83]

@jeanluc83 any pics of the 4 year pines? I have a small garden 8x14 that I'm considering turning it a bonsai playground for Juniper and pines.

I started a thread on my pitch pine when I first started to grow them. The Pitch Pine Experiment

I highly recommend starting some pines from seed but understand that it is a long process. I would start them in pots then transfer them to the ground after a couple of years. Also make sure your garden gets full sun all day. You will get much better growth.

 

[Rusty Davis]

Sounds good, I will reread that thread. I may have gone a little overboard on seeds. I picked up seeds for Scott's, Austrian black, JRP, Jack and Short needle pine. Hell maybe I can start a forest.