Ground Growing Trees: Low vs. High Growth

[Kahless]

I’m growing some trees (elms, maples, hornbeams) in the ground and would like thicker trunks. I have a lot that look like the tree on the left, lots of growth way up top and few branches near the bottom. None of them are thick enough for a chop yet since I like bigger trunks. I would just come back to them and chop (red line) when I am ready. Someone saw one of my elms and said all the growth at the top was a “waste” and that I should chop it low now, but the trunk is only half as big as I want it, and I know once I chop it will grow much slower. I had a few trees that looked like the one on the right with lots of low bushy growth, but once I came back to them after a growing season I realized that there was inverse taper where multiple branches came out and would need to be chopped below that area anyways to fix this. Doesn’t high growth thicken just as well as low? I thought it thickens anything below it. Which one of these two is better? My trees are close together so high growth is less likely to be shaded out by neighboring trees. Thanks!

 

[morriganflora]

High growth will thicken just as well as low growth because thickening is relative to the growth above it. Because of this I'd recommend that you chop before you get to your desired thickness because it will be impossible to build taper on the trees without going beyond your desired thickness. If you cut before reaching it you can start using multiple lower sacrifice branches to build taper into the trunk and achieve a better design. You'll end up with a tree like on the left rather than one on the right.

 

[Kahless]

High growth will thicken just as well as low growth because thickening is relative to the growth above it. Because of this I'd recommend that you chop before you get to your desired thickness because it will be impossible to build taper on the trees without going beyond your desired thickness. If you cut before reaching it you can start using multiple lower sacrifice branches to build taper into the trunk and achieve a better design. You'll end up with a tree like on the left rather than one on the right.

Thanks for the reply. Wouldn’t l still get just as much taper and interest though, if I chopped the tall one on the left (in my drawing) and regrew a new apex in a different direction?Perhaps your method would be faster though.

 

[morriganflora]

Wouldn’t l still get just as much taper and interest though, if I chopped the tall one on the left (in my drawing) and regrew a new apex in a different direction?

That depends on what kind of taper you want. Taper will basically stop below the lowest branch/sacrifice branch. Here's what I'm imagining from what you're saying, and where I see it going.
Obviously you could have whatever amount more branching and tapering in the upper half of the final design but I simplified it for the sake of my point about the lower half. You'll only get more taper towards the base of the trunk by getting new branches down in that lower section, like in my diagram.
It all depends on how much taper you want in the end. My suggestion is just a possible design. A tree can look just as good with a much more subtle amount of taper than what I drew in the first image, but I'd still recommend getting a few low branches in (at least sacrifice branches) to add tapering along the whole length of the trunk. A thick trunk with no or very little tapering can look strange.

 

[Glaucus]

Thanks for the reply. Wouldn’t l still get just as much taper and interest though, if I chopped the tall one on the left (in my drawing) and regrew a new apex in a different direction?Perhaps your method would be faster though.

You don't get taper from high growth.
The amount of taper is proportional to the ratio of low growth to high growth.

 

[Kahless]

You don't get taper from high growth.
The amount of taper is proportional to the ratio of low growth to high growth.

I know. The high growth is to fatten the trunk. The taper would come from the chop I would perform next year or after once the trunk is 3 inches thick. I was just wondering if it would be fine to have high as opposed to low growth to fatten just the bottom until I am ready to chop or would it be a “waste” as the person suggested. Here is the tree in question.

 

[nuttiest]

Your main consideration with chops should be the method intended. is the chop for a sumo styled trunk, or a broom, or just talking out the leader and leaving a smaller new leader?
If sumo style, and you don't know when you will be done, like you don't know if you will need one chop or 3, your main consideration is GIANT WOUND. Healing time, stabilization, setting up the branch that wlll be second chop, to be done who knows what year because you need to wait for that first chop to almost heal.
If you are going to do a broom top to the elm, the cut heals much faster because of all he buds around it, unlike making a trunk for a formal upright with branches added later.
So try to decide your future plan before figuring time in ground. IMO inground chops heal 5-10x faster than potted.

 

[Glaucus]

Depends on the species what would be ideal. In general, I would say to keep a bunch of branches at the base that mimic the final design.
And then have a long bald branch as the apex.

Then when you are happy with the thickness of the base, you chop out that apex and select one of the other branches to become the next sacrificial branch
That way you will always have a true apex, which is long and bald so it doesn't shade the rest of the tree.
And a future apex that is one of the low compact side branches low at the base.
This often works better than having several low sactificial branches.
And much better than just letting a true grow like normal, then chop it, carve it, and then grow a second section.
But it really depends on the species. This general method seems to be the preferred one for pines.

Note that for the absolute best quality bonsai, you need to avoid large scars so you can't really do the large trunk chops.

 

[nuttiest]

So, you just keep cutting the top branches on some trees?

 

[Ininaatigoons]

Nobody mentioned that high growth keeps the trunk moving in the wind. I think that speeds up caliper substantially. As for the rest of the input... Very enlightening and helpful. I still don't have one knock your socks off tree, which is why I love bonsainut! If I'm not learning I'm not progressing.