Growing from Seed

[Haines' Trees]

Hey all

First post on this forum, while I am not brand new to bonsai to am still pretty fresh. I've read a few books on the topic and am familiar with basic principles and care. I have a few small specimens but am really looking to branch out into a more long term endeavor aka growing my own trees from seed and working to create my own bonsai from scratch. I've been reading my books and various things online about sowing from seed but its pretty vague stuff. I purchased a few species of seeds thinking I would start treating them for the growing season. They've been in the fridge for a few weeks and in just a few more it'll be time to plant but I'm still struggling to find the type of info I want.

I'm not short of space; I figure I can keep them in my basement for the first few months after planting. I have a grow light and a decent sized shelf from past ventures growing vegetables. Some of the vague instruction I have found is to plant the seeds of same species together in a relatively large (24w 12d 3h) plastic growing tray with drainage and keep the seeds moist. Can I soak the seed trays in a pool of water like I do for my more mature trees or should I use a sprayer to water the germinating seeds? The book also recommended leaving every seedling in the tray for their first year. Should I do this or transplant the young seedlings into their own container as soon as possible. I know, the answer might depend on the species....

The other topic I was unsure on was growing medium. The seeds will need nutrients so I definitely want an organic soil. The only thing I've found recommended a 1:1 ratio of perlite to peat moss. Is this sufficient or does someone have a better recommendation?

I'll have other questions I'm sure but this is just a start haha.

Thanks in advance!

 

[Shibui]

Keeping seeds in the fridge when you have perfect sub freezing temps outside seems like madness to me. These seeds are stratified because that's what they receive naturally - outside. Fridge stratification should only be necessary where the climate does not allow for cold wintering or where you may have missed the optimal cold of winter. in my experience many more seeds succumb to diseases in the fridge than those kept outside where they are supposed to be.
Keeping them outside should also reduce the need for artificial light and heat because the seeds are primed to germinate at the best time for them to survive without such artificial aids.

Seedlings can be transplanted at any time. I start transplanting them as soon as they are large enough to hold between my fat fingers. Seedlings do not seem to have the same need for correct season transplant that more mature plants have so timing is not critical. With larger batches of seedlings I have transplanted some at cotyledon stage (just after germination) then more every few weeks as space and materials are available - right through the summer. Leftovers sometimes stay in the trays for a year or 2 before finally being transplanted to individual pots. Seedlings in crowded trays will usually have slower growth rates than those in individual pots because of competition for light, water and nutrients.

Seed trays are sometimes left sitting in shallow water if there is any danger of the mix drying before the seeds germinate. Over here this is known as the 'bog method' for germinating seed. After germination excess water can cause problems. Small seedlings are very susceptible to fungal diseases known as damping off. Good air flow and sunshine along with allowing the mix to get slightly dry between waterings are the best antidotes to damping off. Another reason to germinate seed outdoors at the correct time of year. I would be very wary of keeping seedling trays sitting in water, especially indoors.

Organic mix does not necessarily equate to nutrients. Often the reverse is true as organic components decompose and consume Nitrogen in the process. All seedlings need to be fed no mater what mix you use. Inorganic mixes may provide some additional protection against some fungal problems.
Most seed will germinate quite well in the same mix you grow your trees in. Remember that for millions of years they have been making do with ordinary soil. With difficult species losses can be reduced if you use a sanitised 'seed raising mix' I assume nurseries over there would stock something similar. Easy to obtain and good for all sorts of species and specially formulated to provide good conditions for germinating seeds. Hardly worth mucking round with custom mixes when you really don't know anything about what makes a good mix. Seed raising mix has very little nutrients so remember to start fertilising soon after the seedlings emerge for better growth. Perlite/ peat mix will have similar properties - reasonably sterile, no nutrients, good drainage but adequate water holding capacity. It will also have no nutrients so if you use that you will need to feed the seedlings after germination.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

Nothing to add to shibui's very complete response.
Except that I want to stress that inorganics have outperformed organics for the past 2 years in my yard.

 

[GGB]

grow hard to find species or cultivars (if they come true or close to true from seed). You can pick up JBP or green JM at any bonsai nursery/show/meeting/ebay. I personally would pick species that don't grow too incredibly slow or fast. Bald cypress and american elm grow a couple feet a season and can be purchased readily at nurserys for cheap. Where as japanese white pine (for me) seems to grow 2cm a season. I'm 29 years old and am realizing JWP from seed isn't for this lifetime, although I do have very limited space so I try to be extremely efficient/minimalist. Ideally seeds shouldn't be sown directly into the ground, without amended soil, or the roots will look like garbage. In my yard I have clay soil, maybe your case is different. It's tons of fun, I lvoe growing from seed. I'm constantly on sheffields.com and treeseeds.com just daydreaming about all the crap I'd grow if I had the time/space.

 

[bonsaidave]

I let nature grow my seeds because I am garbage at stratifying. Just plant seeds in a big pot in late fall and your done.

You can grow a boatload in a single 10 inch pot. Here are some hackberry seeds after 1 full year of growing. They are a bit stunted from the 100 trees in one pot, but once you transfer them to individual pots they will take off.





Good luck.

 

[penumbra]

Great post Shibui. Most thorough. However, fridge stratifying does give you perfect control with regard to timing. You can plan your seed germination over months. I have about 25 types of seeds being stratified presently and I would really hate to deal with all of these (several hundred seeds) at one time. I have a dedicated refrigerator that I use for seed stratification and to hold bare root seedlings of deciduous material through the winter.

 

[leatherback]

. I have about 25 types of seeds being stratified presently and I would really hate to deal with all of these (several hundred seeds) at one time

Trick would be to sow the seeds directly into thegermination medium and let nature do the rest. That way, you do not have to deal with them at all. BEsides watering and fertilizing.

 

[penumbra]

Certainly is not a doing trick for me at all. As it is I can take 1 seed or 100 seeds in pretty much whatever order I please. If I want to germinate a Fir, 2 Pines, a Maple, and a Hornbeam, that is what I will sow. If I wanted to germinate all my seeds (hundreds) at one time, I could just put them outside and hope for the best. Some of my seeds will be planted in about 2 weeks, some as late as May. I can start them inside or out. I lose a lot of control over what I choose to germinate and when if I leave it entirely up to nature. Also, planting for winter stratification is not going to work with seeds that have double dormancy. Those have to be planted late summer and will not be sprouting for 5 to 6 months. For me, my stratification fridge, which also has small bare root trees, is definitely the way to go.
Thanks for your post.

 

[Mike Hennigan]

Contrary to what shibui wrote, you do not need to fertilize seedlings for some time. They have all the nutrients needed in their seed. Yes, fertilize eventually, a couple months after germination maybe. But fertilizing too early or too aggressively will cause your seedlings to grow too quickly giving you larger internodes. If you want to set up the tree to have a quality trunk later on, don’t put the pedal to the metal with fertilizer right after they germinate. It’s better to let them grow at their own pace at first.

 

[Haines' Trees]

That was far more information than I was thinking would come my way, thanks guys!

Yeah I went the route with the fridge, my father is a professional arborist and said the fridge would work fine. Plus a couple weeks in they ended up getting their subfreezing time since it was like -30 here for a while and the fridge in the garage got well below freezing. In a couple weeks i'll be planting a couple black pines and red maples. My gf got me a few seeds that I'm not sure will grow very well in my climate but those will go in too.

Thanks for the tips fellas! I'll post some follow up pictures in a few months to keep yall posted on how they're doing, we'll see how they do!