Growing in ground question

Brim Gribley

Yamadori
Messages
68
Reaction score
26
Location
NY,NY
USDA Zone
7
Hello everyone,
I would like to know what would be the benefits of just planting a tree straight in the ground VS burying a milk crate or something similar (filled with pumice, pine bark, sphagnum moss and ground soil mix) which the tree has been planted into? The roots still being able to eventually reach outside the container which is buried. Any thoughts on how this would affect the speed of thickening the trunk?
Any Advice, opinions, and thoughts are greatly appreciated.
Thanks!
 

Srt8madness

Omono
Messages
1,168
Reaction score
1,245
Location
Houston, Tx
USDA Zone
9a
People often plant in flats that are set on the ground. Roots will escape into the ground and its easier to pull and root prune. I don't see an advantage to burying the crate unless for cold weather purposes.
 

Potawatomi13

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
6,168
Reaction score
4,403
Location
Eugene, OR
USDA Zone
8
Hello everyone,
I would like to know what would be the benefits of just planting a tree straight in the ground VS burying a milk crate or something similar (filled with pumice, pine bark, sphagnum moss and ground soil mix) which the tree has been planted into? The roots still being able to eventually reach outside the container which is buried. Any thoughts on how this would affect the speed of thickening the trunk?
Any Advice, opinions, and thoughts are greatly appreciated.
Thanks!
Root bags much better idea especially if roots do not escape;).
 

Shibui

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
7,545
Reaction score
15,218
Location
Yackandandah, Australia
USDA Zone
9?
No advantage if milk crates are similar to ours. The spaces are just too big to be effective.
Many people plant in colander or grow bag in ground. Root tips can grow through the mesh but as they expand they are strangled and don't grow bigger. Leads to more small roots inside the colander for easier transplant later but allows some root growth outside for growth.
I don't bother. Annual dig and prune for faster growing species makes it easy to cut through roots, encourages great ramification and keeps roots to a suitable space for future pots.
Sloer growing species like juniper and pines can be left for several year between dig and root prune.
 

BobbyLane

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
6,058
Reaction score
17,659
Location
London, England
if you ground grow do you still have to water daily?
Not at all. sometimes ill water in new plantings for the first 2-4 weeks until they get established 2-3 times a week. I use weed membrane in my grow bed so they tend to establish quite fast with the extra humidity the membrane provides.
 

PieterVE

Mame
Messages
172
Reaction score
239
Location
Ghoy, Belgium
USDA Zone
8
Not at all. sometimes ill water in new plantings for the first 2-4 weeks until they get established 2-3 times a week. I use weed membrane in my grow bed so they tend to establish quite fast with the extra humidity the membrane provides.

idem dito here
 

Brim Gribley

Yamadori
Messages
68
Reaction score
26
Location
NY,NY
USDA Zone
7
This is great! Thank you all for this information. So would a creating a growing bed be worth while? The weed membrane is a wonderful idea. I’ve had a good deal of luck using black bags to encourage back budding, is the principal similar? Just below in the roots.
 

rockm

Spuds Moyogi
Messages
14,182
Reaction score
22,183
Location
Fairfax Va.
USDA Zone
7
Hello everyone,
I would like to know what would be the benefits of just planting a tree straight in the ground VS burying a milk crate or something similar (filled with pumice, pine bark, sphagnum moss and ground soil mix) which the tree has been planted into? The roots still being able to eventually reach outside the container which is buried. Any thoughts on how this would affect the speed of thickening the trunk?
Any Advice, opinions, and thoughts are greatly appreciated.
Thanks!
Because any container slows growth. Planting in a double container slows growth, just as planting in a single container. That is how bonsai works--planting a tree in a container restricting root growth. A physical barrier in the ground is the same (mostly) as a container above ground. That is true until the roots in the buried container reach the outside soil. It can help to allow roots to "escape" into the ground and also with ultimately collecting a root mass when you dig it up. However, that buried container still slows the tree's roots down, slowing top growth. This can be worked to your advantage, but ultimately, direct in-ground growing (for more than three years) is the fastest way to put on heft in trunk and nebari...unlimited root run allows more growth than limited root run....A bigger root mass fuels more growth than a smaller one...
 

Brim Gribley

Yamadori
Messages
68
Reaction score
26
Location
NY,NY
USDA Zone
7
Because any container slows growth. Planting in a double container slows growth, just as planting in a single container. That is how bonsai works--planting a tree in a container restricting root growth. A physical barrier in the ground is the same (mostly) as a container above ground. That is true until the roots in the buried container reach the outside soil. It can help to allow roots to "escape" into the ground and also with ultimately collecting a root mass when you dig it up. However, that buried container still slows the tree's roots down, slowing top growth. This can be worked to your advantage, but ultimately, direct in-ground growing (for more than three years) is the fastest way to put on heft in trunk and nebari...unlimited root run allows more growth than limited root run....A bigger root mass fuels more growth than a smaller one...
Thank you, this makes complete sense and is well explained. Seems like there are different benefits to different ways, just depending on what would be my main goal during this phase of training if I’m following clearly.
 
Messages
143
Reaction score
89
Location
Northern Virginia (Zone 7a)
Not at all. sometimes ill water in new plantings for the first 2-4 weeks until they get established 2-3 times a week. I use weed membrane in my grow bed so they tend to establish quite fast with the extra humidity the membrane provides.
Thanks! Do you place a flat rock or a small tile under the center or just let it grow naturally?
 

BobbyLane

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
6,058
Reaction score
17,659
Location
London, England
This one went in the ground without any tile. only because i wanted to grow a leader quickly and develop some better branch transitions, you can do that in a season or two in the ground
 

Attachments

  • 46527281215_d9a195875f_b.jpg
    46527281215_d9a195875f_b.jpg
    155.1 KB · Views: 113
  • 46527281445_ae740205e5_b.jpg
    46527281445_ae740205e5_b.jpg
    196 KB · Views: 106
  • 20200515_103759.jpg
    20200515_103759.jpg
    394.1 KB · Views: 107
  • 20201218_203121.jpg
    20201218_203121.jpg
    151 KB · Views: 114

Brim Gribley

Yamadori
Messages
68
Reaction score
26
Location
NY,NY
USDA Zone
7
This one went in the ground without any tile. only because i wanted to grow a leader quickly and develop some better branch transitions, you can do that in a season or two in the ground
Looks great Bobby! Are the bottom branches thread grafts?
 

Brim Gribley

Yamadori
Messages
68
Reaction score
26
Location
NY,NY
USDA Zone
7
Also,do you clear away most of the bonsai soil before putting it in?
 

Leo in N E Illinois

The Professor
Messages
11,337
Reaction score
23,254
Location
on the IL-WI border, a mile from ''da Lake''
USDA Zone
5b
My back yard is horrible sub-soil clay. The top soil was removed when the house was built 100 years ago and the "fill" used to cover the clay was a thin layer of slightly darker clay. You can use my "dirt" to make bricks. I never plant anything I want into the ground, because in a few months there will be no way to dig it up without destroying the roots, and often the trunk too.

I found it much easier to just containerize everything, Keep it all portable.
 

BobbyLane

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
6,058
Reaction score
17,659
Location
London, England
Looks great Bobby! Are the bottom branches thread grafts?
no threads grafts no, If the roots have already been sorted and its going from a bonsai pot to the ground i dont clear away bonsai soil no. I often use old bonsai soil to top up or fill in the planting holes though, just mixed in with the dirt or compost.
 

BrianBay9

Masterpiece
Messages
2,753
Reaction score
5,379
Location
Fresno, CA
USDA Zone
9
My back yard is horrible sub-soil clay. The top soil was removed when the house was built 100 years ago and the "fill" used to cover the clay was a thin layer of slightly darker clay. You can use my "dirt" to make bricks. I never plant anything I want into the ground, because in a few months there will be no way to dig it up without destroying the roots, and often the trunk too.

I found it much easier to just containerize everything, Keep it all portable.
Raised beds overcome a variety of soil sins...
 

Brim Gribley

Yamadori
Messages
68
Reaction score
26
Location
NY,NY
USDA Zone
7
no threads grafts no, If the roots have already been sorted and its going from a bonsai pot to the ground i dont clear away bonsai soil no. I often use old bonsai soil to top up or fill in the planting holes though, just mixed in with the dirt or compost.
Thanks Bobby!
 
Top Bottom