growing maples in zone 9a

Joe Dupre'

Omono
Messages
1,699
Reaction score
3,700
Location
Belle Rose, La.
USDA Zone
9a
A couple of buddies and I are having trouble growing maples down here in South Louisiana. Japanese and Trident maple tend to get burnt and ratty looking leaves. Even collected native swamp maples show signs of stress in mid to late summer. We have tried semi-shady areas, more frequent watering , more ( and less) fertilizer and still have the same problems. Is our climate just too hot?
 

Shibui

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
7,642
Reaction score
15,419
Location
Yackandandah, Australia
USDA Zone
9?
The websites seems to indicate I am also in USDA 9a and both trident and Japanese maples grow fine here. Summer daytime temps are frequently over 40C.
Some shade in summer is required for maples in pots but much more critical is proper watering. Many people don't water well enough for the water to penetrate right into the centre of the root zone so each day the pots start out with only a part of the possible water. Each day they tend to get a little drier as the trees use up more water that is not replaced by inadequate watering. Watering more often is not the same as watering thoroughly.

You don't say what potting soil you are using there. Mine is quite open with 4-6mm particles but 70% pine bark which may retain more moisture?

A couple of things you could consider:
Better watering
A more water retentive mix
More shade
 

Dav4

Drop Branch Murphy
Messages
13,098
Reaction score
30,141
Location
SE MI- Bonsai'd for 12 years both MA and N GA
USDA Zone
6a
A couple of buddies and I are having trouble growing maples down here in South Louisiana. Japanese and Trident maple tend to get burnt and ratty looking leaves. Even collected native swamp maples show signs of stress in mid to late summer. We have tried semi-shady areas, more frequent watering , more ( and less) fertilizer and still have the same problems. Is our climate just too hot?
What's your water quality like? I'm thinking the high humidity would increase fungal disease, too, so routine preventative spraying might help. Any chance you've got pictures of the foliage in question?
 

namnhi

Masterpiece
Messages
2,658
Reaction score
4,718
Location
Houston TX
USDA Zone
8b
Am in the same boat as you. Looks like 100% shade after the the first flush of leaves is a must. I also believe in a bigger and deeper pot will help as well. Some of mine barely have any leaf on at this time. Have killed plenty along the way.
 

sorce

Nonsense Rascal
Messages
32,912
Reaction score
45,593
Location
Berwyn, Il
USDA Zone
6.2
I'd be curious to know your pre water and post water weights.
Then the post good watering weight.

I'd bet it's a large difference.

Sorce
 

choppychoppy

Chumono
Messages
720
Reaction score
1,307
Location
N. Florida
A couple of buddies and I are having trouble growing maples down here in South Louisiana. Japanese and Trident maple tend to get burnt and ratty looking leaves. Even collected native swamp maples show signs of stress in mid to late summer. We have tried semi-shady areas, more frequent watering , more ( and less) fertilizer and still have the same problems. Is our climate just too hot?
I'm in Florida and I've never had a trident or red maple leaf burn ever. They get a pretty good amount of Fl sun. The JMs I keep pretty shaded but they do fine as well.
 

Joe Dupre'

Omono
Messages
1,699
Reaction score
3,700
Location
Belle Rose, La.
USDA Zone
9a
Watering: thouroughly soaked every day until water runs out of the drain holes. Sun: Full sun early in year, then into shade through the hottest part of the summer. Soil: 50/50 1/4" pine bark / sifted 8822.

What really puzzles me is the red swamp maple. I collect them from the roadside in absolute full sun. The ones out there in nature don't seem to show signs of stress. Maybe bigger, deeper pots?? Higher percentage of organic soil components??
 

Dav4

Drop Branch Murphy
Messages
13,098
Reaction score
30,141
Location
SE MI- Bonsai'd for 12 years both MA and N GA
USDA Zone
6a
Watering: thouroughly soaked every day until water runs out of the drain holes. Sun: Full sun early in year, then into shade through the hottest part of the summer. Soil: 50/50 1/4" pine bark / sifted 8822.

What really puzzles me is the red swamp maple. I collect them from the roadside in absolute full sun. The ones out there in nature don't seem to show signs of stress. Maybe bigger, deeper pots?? Higher percentage of organic soil components??
Potted trees are inherently more stressed then their kissing cousins in the landscape and in the wild, and are just that more susceptible to disease, water quality, etc....

Fwiw, @Vin lives on the FL panhandle and, if I remember correctly, has successfully grown maples there... perhaps someone to contact.
 

markyscott

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
6,124
Reaction score
21,423
Location
Delaplane VA
USDA Zone
6B
Our climate is pretty similar to yours. I grow quite a few of them. Tridents are easier than Japanese Maples, but we only get good fall color on years where there is an early cold snap.
 

Shibui

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
7,642
Reaction score
15,419
Location
Yackandandah, Australia
USDA Zone
9?
Shade and potting soil sound OK.
Deeper pots are definitely better. Shallow pots just dry out way too fast in drier climates.
Water running out the bottom of a pot is NOT an indication it is well watered. Dry soil shrinks so the first place the water runs is down the sides and out the drain hole. Water runs out the drain holes well before the soil is properly wet.
If the soil is a little dry it may become hydrophobic and actually repel the water.
One alternative is to soak the pots in a tub once a week. That helps to make sure the entire root zone is properly wet at least occasionally.
I use repeat watering to make sure the water soaks in properly - water as normal then come back a couple of minutes later and water again. First water slowly soaks in maybe 1/2 inch max while remainder runs away. Second water rapidly soaks into the damp area and then penetrates another 1/2" or so. A third repeat may be needed to get water right to the centre of the pot. I believe this is probably the reason for the Japanese saying to water 3 times - once for the leaves, once for the branches and once for the trunk.
Another alternative is less water over an extended time. My trees do well with automatic watering as the sprays operate for 10-15 minutes which is way longer than anyone will stand and water the pots and gives the water time to penetrate right through.

Trees that have been in the pots for several years also dry out quicker than recently potted ones. Roots must constantly grow so gradually the spaces in the pot fill with roots, leaving less and less space for water as time goes on. I've found it better to repot some trees with fast growing root systems each year or it becomes difficult to get them through the summer. Maples generally take a few years to reach this point though. Young trees that are growing well get root bound far quicker than older, established trees so allow for both species and age when deciding how often to root prune and repot.

What really puzzles me is the red swamp maple. I collect them from the roadside in absolute full sun. The ones out there in nature don't seem to show signs of stress. Maybe bigger, deeper pots?? Higher percentage of organic soil components??
Remember that roadside trees have the entire earth to hold water for them and roots can go far in search of enough water to keep them hydrated. Your potted trees have very limited space for water so will run out so much quicker.
 

Joe Dupre'

Omono
Messages
1,699
Reaction score
3,700
Location
Belle Rose, La.
USDA Zone
9a
I don't think it's a lack of water. I water every day during summer and can tell by weight when the soil is well-watered. I'll try a more shady location earlier in the seanson this coming year. I may try sitting the pot in a pan of water also. Most of the swamp maples around here are either sitting in water or are just a few feet away from standing water.
 

Mikecheck123

Omono
Messages
1,676
Reaction score
3,208
Location
Northern Virginia
USDA Zone
7b
There is so much more to climate than your zone. That's just one stat. It says literally nothing about humidity, or summer temperatures, or length of winter.

I'm in zone 10 and Japanese maples thrive here with zero effort. Why? Because it still gets cool at night.
 

Joe Dupre'

Omono
Messages
1,699
Reaction score
3,700
Location
Belle Rose, La.
USDA Zone
9a
Well, we only get about 4-5 days a year below freezing. I don't know if that meets the cold requirement for maples. It's probably heat related. We get LONG strings of days in the mid 90's with really high humidity. My buddies and I will try keeping them shaded more through the hottest part of the day.
 

Vin

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
5,257
Reaction score
7,645
Location
Panama City, FL Zone 9a/8b Centr
USDA Zone
8b
Watering: thouroughly soaked every day until water runs out of the drain holes. Sun: Full sun early in year, then into shade through the hottest part of the summer. Soil: 50/50 1/4" pine bark / sifted 8822.

What really puzzles me is the red swamp maple. I collect them from the roadside in absolute full sun. The ones out there in nature don't seem to show signs of stress. Maybe bigger, deeper pots?? Higher percentage of organic soil components??
Thanks @Dav4 I'll try to help if I can.

It is a struggle for many/most Japanese Maples to survive in our climate, they just aren't built for it. However, there are some exceptions. First, I have not had much luck at all with any red variety though I do have some that have managed to stay alive for years now. They just don't thrive and by July they really start looking pitiful. If you're going to try and keep one make sure it stays in dappled shade from June through September which is what you appear to be doing. If I were you, I would try one without using 8822 and substitute a pine bark, pumice and lava mix. For me, akadama breaks down to quickly but you could add some of it if you like it.

Green varieties seem to do best for me. Tridents of course are great (even they can look battered by the end of Summer) but if you can get your hands on the elusive 'Seiryu' acer palmatum seiryu your prayers will be answered. It is the only true upright laceleaf Japanese Maple variety and they thrive in our climate both in a pot and in the ground. I have had one for about 9 years and it has never given me any trouble. It can handle full sun and the leaves never dry out. One of these days I'm going to start striking cuttngs from mine but I never seem to get around to it. I hope this helps you.


Yard Maple.jpg
Grafted unknown variety Laceleaf.

Shohin Japanese Maple 1.1.jpg
Kiyohime I sold a few months ago.
 

electronfusion

Yamadori
Messages
55
Reaction score
22
Location
Northern California
USDA Zone
9b
I live in zone 9b, with short winters. Landscape trees don't start losing their leaves until mid to late november, and last year none of my apple or fig trees lost their leaves at all. This spring, well watered j maples in the shade got all their leaves scorched ofd. So, since I still love those pretty variegated j maples, I've had them growing indoors under lights this summer, and they look very healthy. They'll go back outside during the winter, and come back in probably early March. If your trees are small enough, that might be a good option for you.
 

Joe Dupre'

Omono
Messages
1,699
Reaction score
3,700
Location
Belle Rose, La.
USDA Zone
9a
I live in zone 9b, with short winters. Landscape trees don't start losing their leaves until mid to late november, and last year none of my apple or fig trees lost their leaves at all. This spring, well watered j maples in the shade got all their leaves scorched ofd. So, since I still love those pretty variegated j maples, I've had them growing indoors under lights this summer, and they look very healthy. They'll go back outside during the winter, and come back in probably early March. If your trees are small enough, that might be a good option for you.

That's a new angle.......putting trees inside in SUMMER. I may try adjusting the amount of sun during the day..........maybe just a few hours of morning sun.
 
Messages
1,040
Reaction score
1,405
Location
Azores
This is what I am doing with my Maples down here.
The three options, together.
They make sense and they are working, in my case.
Thanks, @Shibui
In addition to these I keep a thick layer of moss to further guarantee extra moisture and level of protection.
 

Forsoothe!

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
6,878
Reaction score
9,251
Location
Michigan
USDA Zone
6b
Shantung Maple can take higher temps. For them and JM hot winds are almost as stressful as sun exposure, and in combination needs a deeper pot watered more, like twice a day over 90°F. Only east sun is better than only west, and lack of dew aggravates drying out, too. Mid-day sun in bad almost everywhere. They are understory trees, period.
 
Top Bottom