Growing moss

[Mayank]

I love moss. In fact the judge at the last Four Seasons annual show said that if there was an award for best moss, she'd give it to my Chinese elm, hahaha
However, I always feel like if my moss stays lush and green that could mean (not always of course but generally) that I am overwatering the tree itself...

 

[misfit11]

However, I always feel like if my moss stays lush and green that could mean (not always of course but generally) that I am overwatering the tree itself...

This is the thing, Moss looks really cool and it really adds that extra something to our trees. But, unfortunately keeping moss looking nice means caring for the moss at the expense of your tree. Moss will most definitely have different watering and sunlight needs than the tree. If you’re watering enough to keep the moss green then you’re probably overwatering. If you have a very well draining substrate (ie all inorganic with lava rock and pumice and probably no akadama) then this might be still okay as it would be difficult to overwater. But why take that chance?
People new to bonsai want to have moss on their trees because it looks cool (I get it. I did too when I started). Generally, though, people only put moss in their trees for shows. This is why you see the amazing photos of spectacular trees with moss on them. They got photographed because they were being shown.

 

[KillerButts]

Hello all!
My moss started getting orange spots and I’m not sure what they are. Any thoughts?
Thanks for the help!

It's hard to see if that is a different moss. Some plants give off chemicals to fight other competing species. Those darker mosses look so healthy it popped in my crazy head to mention this.

Probably just localized injury from insect, fertilizer, damage from surface topsoil or even a birds foot. Not sure where you keep it though.

 

[Forsoothe!]

This is the thing, Moss looks really cool and it really adds that extra something to our trees. But, unfortunately keeping moss looking nice means caring for the moss at the expense of your tree. Moss will most definitely have different watering and sunlight needs than the tree. If you’re watering enough to keep the moss green then you’re probably overwatering. If you have a very well draining substrate (ie all inorganic with lava rock and pumice and probably no akadama) then this might be still okay as it would be difficult to overwater. But why take that chance?
People new to bonsai want to have moss on their trees because it looks cool (I get it. I did too when I started). Generally, though, people only put moss in their trees for shows. This is why you see the amazing photos of spectacular trees with moss on them. They got photographed because they were being shown.

Baloney. If your tree is in full sun and you water it heavily every day it doesn't rain you can have moss, healthy trees, and small, insignificant spider mite populations.

 

[misfit11]

Baloney. If your tree is in full sun and you water it heavily every day it doesn't rain you can have moss, healthy trees, and small, insignificant spider mite populations.

Disagree. If you have moss completely covering your soil then you cannot see how dry or how wet it is (barring the chop stick method which I think is annoying and unnecessary when I can easily see that the akadama is dark brown or light brown). Although my trees are in full sun, there are days (albeit few) during the summer that I don't need to water. If you're watering every single day "just because" then you're overwatering.
I realize that many people live in areas in the US where temps are very high in the summer where it would seem that the moss aids in moisture retention. My location here in the Bay Area is relatively mild. But that doesn't seem like good enough reason when you're likely to overwater and end up with root rot.
There are other ways to reduce evaporation such as using shade cloth overhead or directly on the soil like a skirt.
There's a member of REBS that has phenomenal trees and he keeps moss year round. He is most definitely the exception. And like I said before he has VERY well drained substrate that makes it very difficult to overwater. Most newbies do not have very well draining inorganic soil and that coupled with moss is a perfect recipe for root rot.

 

[Stweed]

It's hard to see if that is a different moss. Some plants give off chemicals to fight other competing species. Those darker mosses look so healthy it popped in my crazy head to mention this.

Probably just localized injury from insect, fertilizer, damage from surface topsoil or even a birds foot. Not sure where you keep it though.

I was thinking it’s something to do with the fertilizer too. Do you think I should remove the area with the orange and put new moss in?

 

[KillerButts]

I was thinking it’s something to do with the fertilizer too. Do you think I should remove the area with the orange and put new moss in?

Pull when you see it, use needle tweezers and you can carve them out.

I think it's true this is a poor substitute for a sphagnum topsoil.

If you mist them it might not interfere with watering so much. What sucks is all those small particles falling into the top of your rootball.

It's probably no big deal right now. I think what others will tell you is it might catch you on the flip side, literally.

Watch some videos of real hardcore root prunes on large juniper or Oak. It's nothing short of a small feat to clean them.

Your tree won't suffer this issue for a minute but root suffocation will be your main hurdle.

Maybe scale back by carving a miniature walking path of pumice or perlite across the pot. See in two years the different root growth for yourself.

 

[Stweed]

Pull when you see it, use needle tweezers and you can carve them out.

I think it's true this is a poor substitute for a sphagnum topsoil.

If you mist them it might not interfere with watering so much. What sucks is all those small particles falling into the top of your rootball.

It's probably no big deal right now. I think what others will tell you is it might catch you on the flip side, literally.

Watch some videos of real hardcore root prunes on large juniper or Oak. It's nothing short of a small feat to clean them.

Your tree won't suffer this issue for a minute but root suffocation will be your main hurdle.

Maybe scale back by carving a miniature walking path of pumice or perlite across the pot. See in two years the different root growth for yourself.

This is great! Thanks for the tips and advise

 

[KillerButts]

This is great! Thanks for the tips and advise

Your welcome, I am a poor advisor here compared to other members.

You seem to enjoy your well grown moss. Maybe you could consider a root over rock bonsai on another specimen in the future.

That way you can have your moss active on the rock while exposing surface roots within it. I plan to do this on a spruce.

I went with a oblong skipping stone style that's about 11"x7". Its going to be in a small pot so I went with a small rock. They can be massive and you can grow them out in buckets but it will test your patience.

I am starting small with nursery stock while I learn. So I don't end up wanting to try new field grabs and have no room.

The pic below is how I have left it wired to the rock for the next 2 years probably. I will try to expose an inch a year roughly but not sure it's part of winter homework.

 

[Forsoothe!]

Disagree. If you have moss completely covering your soil then you cannot see how dry or how wet it is (barring the chop stick method which I think is annoying and unnecessary when I can easily see that the akadama is dark brown or light brown). Although my trees are in full sun, there are days (albeit few) during the summer that I don't need to water. If you're watering every single day "just because" then you're overwatering.
I realize that many people live in areas in the US where temps are very high in the summer where it would seem that the moss aids in moisture retention. My location here in the Bay Area is relatively mild. But that doesn't seem like good enough reason when you're likely to overwater and end up with root rot.
There are other ways to reduce evaporation such as using shade cloth overhead or directly on the soil like a skirt.
There's a member of REBS that has phenomenal trees and he keeps moss year round. He is most definitely the exception. And like I said before he has VERY well drained substrate that makes it very difficult to overwater. Most newbies do not have very well draining inorganic soil and that coupled with moss is a perfect recipe for root rot.

My potting mix consists of equal volumes of top soil and Pine Bark Soil Conditioner plus charcoal, Green Sand and Menefee Humate. No rocks. I don't wire very many in the pot because I can pack the soil down around the roots to jam them in place until the roots fill out and garb the insides of pots. Of course it hasn't proven itself yet, I've only been using it for 20 years. Moss loves it. It holds gobs of water. I water everything with a hose, large & small, every day it doesn't rain. I make sure the foliage gets sprayed from above and underneath to keep the canopies from being havens for spider mites, and all the pots are sloshed and thoroughly wet-out. Maybe I should go out check to see if any of them are still alive?

Once again, everybody in the world has to use the the same mix or the sky will fall. I'll go out and look...

 

[Stweed]

Your welcome, I am a poor advisor here compared to other members.

You seem to enjoy your well grown moss. Maybe you could consider a root over rock bonsai on another specimen in the future.

That way you can have your moss active on the rock while exposing surface roots within it. I plan to do this on a spruce.

I went with a oblong skipping stone style that's about 11"x7". Its going to be in a small pot so I went with a small rock. They can be massive and you can grow them out in buckets but it will test your patience.

I am starting small with nursery stock while I learn. So I don't end up wanting to try new field grabs and have no room.

The pic below is how I have left it wired to the rock for the next 2 years probably. I will try to expose an inch a year roughly but not sure it's part of winter homework.

That’s a great idea! I like what you’ve done. I think that could be what I try for my next tree

 

[Cable]

You may want to consider opening up the trunk area to prevent/delay moss growth on the trunk.

Why?

 

[Blimpsandmtn]

Why?

Why?

if im not mistaken it may cause rotting on the trunk or something to that effect, not very good to have on trunks.

 

[Sansui]

Hi Cable, To keep the trunk base area drier to delay moss growth up the trunk.

 

[Cable]

if im not mistaken it may cause rotting on the trunk or something to that effect, not very good to have on trunks.

Interesting. Can you prove it? I thought maybe the concern was it could cause adventitious roots.

Hi Cable, To keep the trunk base area drier to delay moss growth up the trunk.

Why?

 

[Sansui]

Interesting. Can you prove it? I thought maybe the concern was it could cause adventitious roots.



Why?

If it wasn't raining right now I'd post some pictures of unsightly runaway moss turtleneck tree trunks. I believe too much prlonged bark moisture leads to soft bark that tends to come off easily when cleaned of moss.

 

[Cable]

I believe too much prlonged bark moisture leads to soft bark that tends to come off easily when cleaned of moss.

Could be. Then again, I believe the Browns are going to be good some day...

Anybody have personal experience that goes beyond belief and second hand knowledge?

I have a couple of trees that came with moss. I cleaned off some, it came back. I see not issues with the trees after two years but maybe that isn't long enough.

 

[Forsoothe!]

Some trees are more sensitive to moss on the trunk than others. Junipers don't care, but oaks have a big problem with moss consuming the bark. I don't know why. I use moss on everything and clean it off the bark with a toothbrush. A former toothbrush.

 

[sorce]

I recently picked some live moss off a boxwood trunk and had some thoughts. Since usually it pulls bark too.

Just remember that bark is dead. And wet dead rots.

The last thing we want is bases with no bark.

Vinegar that shit.

Nothing says careless like a mossed up trunk.

Sorce

 

[Forsoothe!]

Yes @sorce, and it should be stated in no uncertain words that bark consumed by moss will take a long, long time to be replaced.