Growing out the Tree - Reality Check

tdesaul

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Bonsai being kept restricted in pots will increase in trunk and branch girth, but very slowly. However you will be able to keep the bonsai quite refined throughout its life. The snag with wanting a substantial trunk quickly is that after the plant has been given enough space to grow freely and develop the thick characterful trunk, the grower has to have the knowledge and skills to then reduce the rootsphere and branch thickness and a myriad of horticultural and design issues to return the bonsai some refinement.
Thank you!!
 

Shibui

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If I want a thick trunk, then I need to let it grow in a big pot/or the ground?
I assume that I'm also pruning the tree to keep the height where I want it, correct?
Height can be adjusted. You should have pruning tools to do that. Many of my deciduous growing on trees get to 3-4m tall through summer growing season but are chopped back down to 20-30cm in winter. Even junipers and pines can grow to a meter or 2 tall before being chopped. That's the growth that fuels thickening and I can develop a 10cm thick trunk in 3-4 years (depending on species). Without that growth the same trees will take 10-20 years to grow to the same thickness trunk.
Don't be fooled thinking fast growing is all beer and skittles though. There's many pitfalls and even for experienced growers not every start ends up as a winner.

Bonsai being kept restricted in pots will increase in trunk and branch girth, but very slowly.
Over the years I have found 2 species that go against the 'thicken very slowly in a small pot'. Ficus rubiginosa thickens substantially on small pots. The trees I tried keeping as shohin have needed larger pots 3 times over 20 years because the trunks thickened so much they would not fit back into the previous pot. They do grow faster in large pots or ground but still thicken way faster than most others in pots.
Banksias are another genus that thicken even with restricted root run. In the case of B. integrifolia trunks thicken almost as quick in a pot as in the grow beds.

However you will be able to keep the bonsai quite refined throughout its life.
This is also very true. One of my best small tridents has never been in a grow pot or in the ground. No cut scars, all branches well formed and great taper due to slow and meticulous growing and regular trimming. It did take nearly 20 years to reach the stage I was happy though and few newbies are willing to invest that much time to achieve a bonsai.
 
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Yes, in the ground
Just completely naked in the ground? For some reason the idea of putting the tree in a pond basket/colander, THEN in the ground is stuck in my head from somewhere. I am guessing that only applies if you want to restrict root growth for the sake of 'bonsai ready' roots.. but perhaps naked in the ground is better if trunk/tree growth is the main goal, even if there will need to be more significant root pruning to be done as tolerated down the road?
 

BobbyLane

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Just completely naked in the ground? For some reason the idea of putting the tree in a pond basket/colander, THEN in the ground is stuck in my head from somewhere. I am guessing that only applies if you want to restrict root growth for the sake of 'bonsai ready' roots.. but perhaps naked in the ground is better if trunk/tree growth is the main goal, even if there will need to be more significant root pruning to be done as tolerated down the road?
Can refer you to a video I watched last night,

I dont use colanders, but I do tend to pick up material that already has decent root systems which I would then place on a tile in the ground. some tidy up or trim back roots in the ground every so often, but I dont usually do that I just plant them and dig them up when theyre ready to be dug and do the roots then.
Sometimes ill pick up young nursery trees, slice a bit off the bottom and put it in the ground as is, just teasing out a little of the surface roots. they establish quickly and have an abundance of root to power strong growth.
 
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MaciekA

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Just completely naked in the ground? For some reason the idea of putting the tree in a pond basket/colander, THEN in the ground is stuck in my head from somewhere. I am guessing that only applies if you want to restrict root growth for the sake of 'bonsai ready' roots.. but perhaps naked in the ground is better if trunk/tree growth is the main goal, even if there will need to be more significant root pruning to be done as tolerated down the road?

I can't speak for properly cold climates, because ground-growing additionally has a thermal benefit for those climates, but -- if you're in a milder climate (west coast USA, Japan, SE USA, mediterranean etc), take a look at Kazuo Onuma's growing techniques, which aim to reach the same goal: vigor from root escape via container stacking.

The ground is still, by far, the absolute king of all the growth enhancing techniques, but Onuma's technique (which is used in the US as well, can't speak for other regions) works reasonably well in most cases and insanely well in other cases (my own pines!). He uses containers that are heavily perforated (baskets, colanders, trays -- something with a mesh bottom) and then stacks them on top of each other. This is useful if you need to be able to move your plants or you don't have access to the ground. It's also useful for things like an angle change (if you use colanders you've got degrees of freedom in how you stack the colander on top of the next one). If you look through Onuma's instagram account you'll see lots of trees that are leapingly vigorous. Some of this is due to climate. Some of this is due to the use of sacrificial branches. But the stacking clearly helps. I've had great success with it and have also seen it used in combination with field growing (stack a colander on a pond basket , put pond basket out into field).

Stacking is not without its tradeoffs. Some find extraction to be tricky (YMMV). And you miss out on the ground's thermal boost in both extreme cold and extreme heat, and probably the biology of the ground too.

As for container-THEN-ground, this is common amongst Oregon field growers at least (can't speak for other regions), and was the way Telperion Farms did it.
 
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Can refer you to a video I watched last night,

I dont use colanders, but I do tend to pick up material that already has decent root systems which I would then place on a tile in the ground. some tidy up or trim back roots in the ground every so often, but I dont usually do that I just plant them and dig them up when theyre ready to be dug and do the roots then.
Sometimes ill pick up young nursery trees, slice a bit off the bottom and put it in the ground as is, just teasing out a little of the surface roots. they establish quickly and have an abundance of root to power strong growth.
If there is a tile under the rootball, does that not invite drainage problems? Or is the relative small coverage of your tile just insignificant compared to the rest of the 'untiled' root mass?
Also- maybe it makes a difference whether you place the tree directly on the tile vs putting however much substrate between tile and rootball?
 

dbonsaiw

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If there is a tile under the rootball, does that not invite drainage problems?
It doesn't in a pot, so can't see how it would in the ground. Excess would run off the sides. Always wondered if too large a tile in a pot could prevent the soil under it from getting wet enough.
 

BobbyLane

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Nope unless youre using a bowl, the water will just drain over the edges. If concerned, plant at an angle. ive placed the tree directly on the tile or with a mound of soil between roots and tile and had the same results. when you place the tree on a tile first then add soil, soil is going to find itself in and amongst the roots base anyway.
I wouldnt complicate things, these are very simple methods.
 

BobbyLane

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It doesn't in a pot, so can't see how it would in the ground. Excess would run off the sides. Always wondered if too large a tile in a pot could prevent the soil under it from getting wet enough.
The pot has holes in it, so a little different.
again if one is concerned you can simply punch a few tiny holes in the board.
 
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Nope unless youre using a bowl, the water will just drain over the edges. If concerned, plant at an angle. ive placed the tree directly on the tile or with a mound of soil between roots and tile and had the same results. when you place the tree on a tile first then add soil, soil is going to find itself in and amongst the roots base anyway.
I wouldnt complicate things, these are very simple methods.
The video you linked was great! Thank you!

I am glad I asked. I got that idea reading the other day about making sure that the ground beneath the soil you are planting to grow out in isn't clay or sth that doesnt drain as well as the top substrate. I digress. Thanks again :)
 

leatherback

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If you start with a small one that's rather nice, the 30 years will pass pleasantly.
The time to be selective is at the nursery when you can toss aside the uglies.
Very good to keep in mind.

I think that there are all these different routes to walk, and all of them have pros and cons.

I find that also in pots one can get very decent growth. Just get a pot slightly too large. And let things run. Then again, friends of mine focus on azalea and maples, and grow everything out from small cutting-sized material. All in pots. No big cuts. And after 10 years they do have a 4 inch / 10cm trunk on japanese maples. Feeding well, annual refinement pruning. In oversized pots and superfeeding (Fermenting fertilizer in big water tubs that they use for watering).
 
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