Growing pines from cuttings

Shibui

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Because I have had to learn most of my bonsai techniques in isolation I have often done it wrong. As a result I have discovered that a number of things that the bonsai experts tell us are not possible are, in fact, viable.
Pine cuttings are one of those things I have been told is impossible but I know can be done.
On another recent thread Adair M invited me to document the process so for Adair and others here it is:

Many, many years ago I took home a cutting of white pine after a club workshop. Not realizing I could not strike cuttings of white pine I put it in and it grew roots.
Pinus radiata is our main softwood forestry species here and a forester acquaintance alerted me to the fact that the industry was selecting fast growing trees of good form and propagating those 'super pines' by cuttings to increase yields in softwood forestry. If foretsers can do it then why can't I?
Some further research showed that pines can be cutting grown so I started experimenting with JBP, Mugho and JRP that I had here.

Juvenile shoots root far easier than more mature wood. That's the reasoning behind the seedling cutting method but there's far more scope than the rigid rules so often set out by some experts. I can take cuttings off pine seedlings and strike them with somewhere around 90% success. I documented that on my JBP pine contest entry.
Older wood cuttings have reduced strike rate but I can occasionally get 50% with 1 year old shoots with all the pines listed above. Pictures are worth way more than words but I can't find any on my files however I have described the process on my website More pine cuttings - Shibui Bonsai
 

Shibui

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Clonex seems to work well. Currently using red strength but I have not tried the purple or green for pines. I tried another knock off gel that only comes in one strength but it did not seem to give the same results so back to clonex.
Earlier trials with liquid rooting mix also worked but I have not tried powder form on pine cuttings.
Maybe someone would like to do a side by side test of the different formulations to give us some idea whether there is any difference in the 3.
 

Leo in N E Illinois

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In the past, I took cuttings of cork bark Japanese black pines. Three of the dozen cuttings lived for quite a while, one lasted about 4 years. I had green needles, a visible apical bud, no growth, and four years later still no roots. I dosed a couple times over the 4 years with rooting powder. Nothing. Eventually the last cutting died. The shoots I took were young shoots, just about the time the needles were fully extended. The donor tree was about 18 years old.

I have not tried again. Perhaps someday.
 

Shibui

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This year I was able to get some JBP seed and grew seedlings.
I am aware the normal procedure for pine seedling cuttings is to cut the stem where it changes to purple then throw the roots away and strike the upper section as a cutting to get better roots for future nebari.
Through deductions, followed by trial and error I discovered it does not matter where the seedling is chopped. The only important thing is that it be juvenile. Seed is hard to come by down here as quarantine has banned import of all pine products so I've developed a technique which gives me a seedling cutting as well as a viable lower section - 2 plants from every seed!

This year's seedling cuttings are showing good roots from the base of the propagating pot so today I potted them on.

The pics should tell most of the story.
Juvenile seedling cuttings
CH230084.JPG

Strong root growth
CH230085.JPG

19 with roots, 1 with a very small root and 2 still to come
CH230086.JPG

Some have a good spread of roots, a few just have or 2 roots so far
CH230088.JPG

Roots are cut back to promote even more laterals for better future nebari
CH230089.JPG

Potted up ready to grow
CH230090.JPG
 
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I’m curious

I just did 2 cuttings off a pine I got the other day. Just wanted to see how it’d go

Are you able to show your setup as well as specs to what you find works?
 

Shibui

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I just did 2 cuttings off a pine I got the other day. Just wanted to see how it’d go

Are you able to show your setup as well as specs to what you find works?
Cuttings from mature pine growth can occasionally root but success is generally quite low. I get maybe 10-20% success with cuttings from last year's shoots or older.
The juvenile growth shown above is a completely different thing as you can see from the photos.

These photos should give you an indication of my propagating area.
CH240091.JPG
The base is trays of gravel that hold water to maintain high humidity.
CH240092.JPG

Automatic misting keeps the media damp and adds more humidity by misting the leaves with water. The drier the air the more often the balance arm starts the sprays. My first balance arm was home made and operated for around 10 years before I replaced it with this ready made unit last year. There are other versions of the auto misting controllers that do similar function.
CH240093.JPG
For smaller setup humidity can be increased with covers over the pots - plastic bag draped over wire arches, cut off plastic soda bottle, etc or put multiple pots in plastic tote/storage box.

Commercial misting heads apply extremely fine mist so the pots don't get waterlogged but leaves are coated in water whenever it gets dry.
CH240094.JPG

Pot size doesn't matter much. I find it convenient to use these 3" diameter pots. I know others who root cuttings in smaller, individual cells to save time and effort when potting rooted cuttings on into pots. I usually get around 15-20 small cuttings in a pot this size as you can see in the previous pics.
CH240095.JPG

Cutting media varies from person to person. Provided it is relatively inert (not too many pests or diseases), has good aeration, holds some water and hold the cuttings it should work.
My mix is 50/50 coir peat and coarse perlite.
CH240096.JPG

many species will root without any added hormones but commercial hormone does increase % rooting and speed of root production and is really beneficial for harder to strike species. there are a number of formulations - powder, liquid and gel. I've found the newer gel formulations give me a slightly better strike rate. Clonex makes 3 different strengths. This red is better for older, hard wood cuttings, Green is designed for softer wood cuttings in spring and summer. The theory is the stronger red may be too strong for softer green cuttings but I still get reasonable rates. The juvenile pine cuttings above were dipped in red. Maybe green would have given More roots on each cutting? I've recently bought some green to trial the difference.
CH240098.JPG

Have I covered everything?
 

TwilightTrees

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Cuttings from mature pine growth can occasionally root but success is generally quite low. I get maybe 10-20% success with cuttings from last year's shoots or older.
The juvenile growth shown above is a completely different thing as you can see from the photos.

These photos should give you an indication of my propagating area.
View attachment 426430
The base is trays of gravel that hold water to maintain high humidity.
View attachment 426431

Automatic misting keeps the media damp and adds more humidity by misting the leaves with water. The drier the air the more often the balance arm starts the sprays. My first balance arm was home made and operated for around 10 years before I replaced it with this ready made unit last year. There are other versions of the auto misting controllers that do similar function.
View attachment 426432
For smaller setup humidity can be increased with covers over the pots - plastic bag draped over wire arches, cut off plastic soda bottle, etc or put multiple pots in plastic tote/storage box.

Commercial misting heads apply extremely fine mist so the pots don't get waterlogged but leaves are coated in water whenever it gets dry.
View attachment 426433

Pot size doesn't matter much. I find it convenient to use these 3" diameter pots. I know others who root cuttings in smaller, individual cells to save time and effort when potting rooted cuttings on into pots. I usually get around 15-20 small cuttings in a pot this size as you can see in the previous pics.
View attachment 426435

Cutting media varies from person to person. Provided it is relatively inert (not too many pests or diseases), has good aeration, holds some water and hold the cuttings it should work.
My mix is 50/50 coir peat and coarse perlite.
View attachment 426436

many species will root without any added hormones but commercial hormone does increase % rooting and speed of root production and is really beneficial for harder to strike species. there are a number of formulations - powder, liquid and gel. I've found the newer gel formulations give me a slightly better strike rate. Clonex makes 3 different strengths. This red is better for older, hard wood cuttings, Green is designed for softer wood cuttings in spring and summer. The theory is the stronger red may be too strong for softer green cuttings but I still get reasonable rates. The juvenile pine cuttings above were dipped in red. Maybe green would have given More roots on each cutting? I've recently bought some green to trial the difference.
View attachment 426437

Have I covered everything?
Thanks for great info. Which month of the seasons do you do your cuttings?
 
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Cuttings from mature pine growth can occasionally root but success is generally quite low. I get maybe 10-20% success with cuttings from last year's shoots or older.
The juvenile growth shown above is a completely different thing as you can see from the photos.

These photos should give you an indication of my propagating area.
View attachment 426430
The base is trays of gravel that hold water to maintain high humidity.
View attachment 426431

Automatic misting keeps the media damp and adds more humidity by misting the leaves with water. The drier the air the more often the balance arm starts the sprays. My first balance arm was home made and operated for around 10 years before I replaced it with this ready made unit last year. There are other versions of the auto misting controllers that do similar function.
View attachment 426432
For smaller setup humidity can be increased with covers over the pots - plastic bag draped over wire arches, cut off plastic soda bottle, etc or put multiple pots in plastic tote/storage box.

Commercial misting heads apply extremely fine mist so the pots don't get waterlogged but leaves are coated in water whenever it gets dry.
View attachment 426433

Pot size doesn't matter much. I find it convenient to use these 3" diameter pots. I know others who root cuttings in smaller, individual cells to save time and effort when potting rooted cuttings on into pots. I usually get around 15-20 small cuttings in a pot this size as you can see in the previous pics.
View attachment 426435

Cutting media varies from person to person. Provided it is relatively inert (not too many pests or diseases), has good aeration, holds some water and hold the cuttings it should work.
My mix is 50/50 coir peat and coarse perlite.
View attachment 426436

many species will root without any added hormones but commercial hormone does increase % rooting and speed of root production and is really beneficial for harder to strike species. there are a number of formulations - powder, liquid and gel. I've found the newer gel formulations give me a slightly better strike rate. Clonex makes 3 different strengths. This red is better for older, hard wood cuttings, Green is designed for softer wood cuttings in spring and summer. The theory is the stronger red may be too strong for softer green cuttings but I still get reasonable rates. The juvenile pine cuttings above were dipped in red. Maybe green would have given More roots on each cutting? I've recently bought some green to trial the difference.
View attachment 426437

Have I covered everything?
Very nice write up, thanks! Man, I wish I had room for a set up like yours. I can tell it’s pretty humid in there

I did use some rooting hormone powder on mine. Again, just playing with the idea myself. I’ll attach a few pics of what I got. I have low expectations, so I can be pleasantly surprised if even one strikes
 

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Shibui

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I’ll attach a few pics of what I got.
Good luck with those cuttings. Appears to be adult foliage so root % is usually much lower than juvenile growth but can still work. Pine cuttings can stay healthy for up to 2 year without roots so persevere.
I'm starting to believe that roots are like shoots and can only grow from where needles were. Candle cuttings have not been successful for me because base of candles has no needles. Appears your cuttings have a 'heel' of older wood? May make a difference as the base of each shoot has potential for new shoots (and maybe roots?)


Thanks for great info. Which month of the seasons do you do your cuttings?
Hardwood cuttings of pine (last years growth at pruning) are usually in summer (December here) when I decandle new shoots.
I've also had some success with pine cuttings taken while doing winter reduction pruning. One older grower said late winter was the best time for rooting mature pin cuttings here.

Juvenile cuttings will root whenever you have suitable material. Usually summer because that's when spring seedlings have grown enough to chop but any time seems successful.

I find cuttings success is more about the state of the shoots used for cuttings - soft, semi hard or hard - rather than time of year. I can get hard cuttings any time of year from most plants. Softer cuttings are more seasonal.
 
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Good luck with those cuttings. Appears to be adult foliage so root % is usually much lower than juvenile growth but can still work. Pine cuttings can stay healthy for up to 2 year without roots so persevere.
I'm starting to believe that roots are like shoots and can only grow from where needles were. Candle cuttings have not been successful for me because base of candles has no needles. Appears your cuttings have a 'heel' of older wood? May make a difference as the base of each shoot has potential for new shoots (and maybe roots?)

I figured the juvenile needles on the one may help and I’ve never done heel cuttings, so figured I can’t go wrong

Oh, do heel cuttings stile more often because you get a part of an old shoot, and shoots can produce roots? I never knew the reason behind heel cuttings

I have them in the shade and the get maybe a 1- 1.5 hrs of early morning light. I’ll just keep an eye on them. If they go brown and dry, no biggie
 

Bonds Guy

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One older grower said late winter was the best time for rooting mature pin cuttings here.
I can somewhat attest to this. Just last month I did some pruning on my pine and save 2 shoots just for the hell of it. I left them in my humidity dome, didn’t bother potting (told myself I’d get around to it) and now they have callous at the base. I’m contemplating if I should pot them or leave them where they are

D1727AB5-412A-4527-B1CA-0BEC13609F8C.jpeg4493F7D5-2F27-4135-9C97-75C3793A083F.jpeg
 

Shibui

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Oh, do heel cuttings stile more often because you get a part of an old shoot, and shoots can produce roots? I never knew the reason behind heel cuttings
Heel cuttings were very popular at one stage. I think it is based on the complex budding ability of the branch collar but not certain. That's what prompted me to make the observation above.
Heel cuttings are not recommended now because there's evidence the small piece of older wood tends to decay in the cutting mix and compromise rooting ability.
 

Haxor Dave

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Clonex seems to work well. Currently using red strength but I have not tried the purple or green for pines. I tried another knock off gel that only comes in one strength but it did not seem to give the same results so back to clonex.
Earlier trials with liquid rooting mix also worked but I have not tried powder form on pine cuttings.
Maybe someone would like to do a side by side test of the different formulations to give us some idea whether there is any difference in the 3.
I have purple but all my pines are just saplings so i won't be cutting on them for a while
 
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Because I have had to learn most of my bonsai techniques in isolation I have often done it wrong. As a result I have discovered that a number of things that the bonsai experts tell us are not possible are, in fact, viable.
Pine cuttings are one of those things I have been told is impossible but I know can be done.
On another recent thread Adair M invited me to document the process so for Adair and others here it is:

Many, many years ago I took home a cutting of white pine after a club workshop. Not realizing I could not strike cuttings of white pine I put it in and it grew roots.
Pinus radiata is our main softwood forestry species here and a forester acquaintance alerted me to the fact that the industry was selecting fast growing trees of good form and propagating those 'super pines' by cuttings to increase yields in softwood forestry. If foretsers can do it then why can't I?
Some further research showed that pines can be cutting grown so I started experimenting with JBP, Mugho and JRP that I had here.

Juvenile shoots root far easier than more mature wood. That's the reasoning behind the seedling cutting method but there's far more scope than the rigid rules so often set out by some experts. I can take cuttings off pine seedlings and strike them with somewhere around 90% success. I documented that on my JBP pine contest entry.
Older wood cuttings have reduced strike rate but I can occasionally get 50% with 1 year old shoots with all the pines listed above. Pictures are worth way more than words but I can't find any on my files however I have described the process on my website More pine cuttings - Shibui Bonsai
I am new to the Bonsai world making Bonsai Pots in my pottery studio and for the first time have thought about growing pine and mugos for Bonsai. My question is is it to late in the season (mid May) to transplant seedlings that may be about one to three years old? Thanks for any advise. I live in Michigan on 80 wooded acres.
 

Shibui

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Please add Michigan to your personal profile so you don't need to type that each time you post. makes it easier for members to give advice based on location.

I cannot tell how your spring is progressing but mid spring is OK for transplanting pines. I usually repot my mature pines after I've finished all the deciduous so transplant pine is OK when deciduous have open leaves. Even if the pine candles have started to grow they seem to cope with transplant. Younger seedlings are transplanted right through summer here as young seedlings are programmed to grow new roots and recover very well after root pruning.
 

bangsaturday

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Pine cuttings are one of those things I have been told is impossible but I know can be done.

Awesome Shibui. Your thread has prompted me to want to try pine cuttings.

I have new shoots coming out in the past month of so, here in the the Southern Hemisphere.

But before any attempt, I will have to get my hands on some sterilized coco peat, and trying a mix of 50/50 coco + fine pumice.

With regards to your selection process, is there any advice you could provide?

For example. Near the top, Middle section, sides?
 

Shibui

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Please note that strike rates from pine cuttings is relatively poor. I get from 0 to 15% success. I only grew cuttings because we could not get seeds here.
Juvenile shoots from very young seedlings strike much better - close to 100%. Occasionally after hard pruning some older JBP can produce a flush of juvenile shoots which also strike better than adult shoots.
With older trees like yours the best results were from 1 year old shoots. That is the candles that open in spring but wait until end of winter so they are nearly a year old.
It does not matter whether the cuttings are from the top, bottom or sides of the tree but, in nearly all species, usually top is stronger and healthier and cuttings from strong, healthy branches tend to root better.
Roots can take up to 12 months to start but occasionally quicker so don't get discouraged if you don't have roots soon.
I have seen some comments that new opened shoots can root in spring or early summer. No candle cuttings have produced roots here but last year I realised I've always included the bare 'neck' section of candles. If new buds can't grow on the bare section then maybe roots can't grow either so if you try young shoots try trimming to remove that lower bare part.
I put all cuttings under automatic misting to maintain humidity before roots form. Not sure how pine cuttings will go in a plastic box or bag as humidity control. Maybe humidity in Bali will be enough through the wet season?
You have plenty of spare branches on your pines so plenty of scope to try a few different things and see what works for you in Bali. Please let us all know what happens with any trials you make.
 
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