Growing some JBP

River's Edge

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Looking great! Very healthy color.
Important to keep in mind that the trunk thickens primarily with apical extension of sacrifice leader, not the lower branches. They do contibute to some thickening below the site they come off the trunk, but not to the extent that leader growth contributes to the overall thickness of the trunk.
 

cmeg1

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Looking great! Very healthy color.
Important to keep in mind that the trunk thickens primarily with apical extension of sacrifice leader, not the lower branches. They do contibute to some thickening below the site they come off the trunk, but not to the extent that leader growth contributes to the overall thickness of the trunk.
Ah!
I knew I seen that somewhere.At least for a thicker base would be nice.One of them has about 8 branches at the base.Kind of bizarre,but seems useful for this purpose.
Thanks!
 

River's Edge

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Ah!
I knew I seen that somewhere.At least for a thicker base would be nice.One of them has about 8 branches at the base.Kind of bizarre,but seems useful for this purpose.
Thanks!
They are useful to keep, i keep as many branches and foliage as possible for as long as possible in development. My only rule of thumb is to remove a branch if it will create a problem on the trunk,( Knob or reverse taper). The other issue i watch closely for is to remove the extra needles that might shade out and kill interior foliage or new shoots in desireable locations.
 

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Candles grew ok for not having a dormancy yet.
Do 'we' know that they require dormancy?
Dormancy is basically a bud chilling requirement.
It would be interesting to see (since you have the extra trees and lights) if they indeed do or not.

Tropical trees, don't need to cope with freezing temperatures, so their growth is driven by increasing versus decreasing days and temperature. Maybe p. thunbergii should be classed as a 'tropical' species - do you suppose?
 

Leo in N E Illinois

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Do 'we' know that they require dormancy?
Dormancy is basically a bud chilling requirement.
It would be interesting to see (since you have the extra trees and lights) if they indeed do or not.

Tropical trees, don't need to cope with freezing temperatures, so their growth is driven by increasing versus decreasing days and temperature. Maybe p. thunbergii should be classed as a 'tropical' species - do you suppose?
The OP, @cmeg1 is in Pennsylvania. The problem with running this experiment is this: the damn trees talk to each other. Of course by talk I mean emit volitile sesquiterpenes that function as signals for controlling growth hormones. The haze of the "Blue Ridge Mountains" is caused by red spruce, white pine and balsam firs emitting sesquiterpenes into the air. Other species of trees have been documented to respond to these signals. Your trees "know" exactly what time of year it is because they can read the signal in the air from the landscape trees in the neighborhood.

I used to import orchids from the southern hemisphere. Tropical orchids, but they would be seasonal with blooming. Almost without exceptions, by 18 or at the latest 30 months in the northern hemisphere, every one would have adjusted to a northern hemisphere calendar. Spring bloomers that bloomed in October in Australia, would be blooming in May. Usually in 18 months. Why? Because the white pine in the yard told them what time it was. The terpenes would deep into the house. Made sure all the houseplants were informed.

So the "tropical" experiment would be difficult to run. However, looking at the native range of JBP, all the way to Okinowa and through Kyushu, it is a very warm tolerant species able to survive in low winter chill environments.

@Anthony can tell you what he does for JBP in winter, his climate is nearly or is fully tropical.
 

0soyoung

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So the "tropical" experiment would be difficult to run. However, looking at the native range of JBP, all the way to Okinowa and through Kyushu, it is a very warm tolerant species able to survive in low winter chill environments.

@Anthony can tell you what he does for JBP in winter, his climate is nearly or is fully tropical.
First, @cmeg1 started these from seeds under lights indoors, so he has everything that is physically necessary - it is just a question of whether he wants to try it or would rather use his resources to start more seedlings.

It would be interesting to see what happens to JBP in the Caribbean tropics, but I suspect that whatever @Anthony does has been strongly influenced by 'conventional wisdom'. Maybe he just puts them in a refrigerator for a few 'winter months' only because 'everybody' told him he had to. I dunno. I only recall @Anthony saying that candle cutting didn't work to reduced needle size in Trinidad&Tobago.

We do know that p. thunbergii seed will germinate without stratification. We also know that the germination rate is higher with cold stratification. This would lead to a limit in its natural southern distribution, regardless of bud chill. It would seem that requirements for seed germination and bud chill might be similar, but I don't know this to indeed be the case. If a seedling is 'so stupid' as to not know that it is winter outside and that the growing season really insn't 9+months long, where does the sapling get educated to the to the facts?
 

cmeg1

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Do 'we' know that they require dormancy?
Dormancy is basically a bud chilling requirement.
It would be interesting to see (since you have the extra trees and lights) if they indeed do or not.

Tropical trees, don't need to cope with freezing temperatures, so their growth is driven by increasing versus decreasing days and temperature. Maybe p. thunbergii should be classed as a 'tropical' species - do you suppose?
Well,I seen they grow zones 5-9.Zone 9 frost season is only 2-4 weeks it seems.Do they need any frost at all....I’m not sure.Sounds like a fun experiment though.Maybe @Anthony chime in.
It’s got me thinking.
I will be sewing my seeds in August for the second batch.That will give about about a 16 month first growing season,which I think they handle fine and definately seems a great start.
There is a side to me that just wants to give these a nice Winter rest in the cold frame after the first long season.
 

cmeg1

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They are useful to keep, i keep as many branches and foliage as possible for as long as possible in development. My only rule of thumb is to remove a branch if it will create a problem on the trunk,( Knob or reverse taper). The other issue i watch closely for is to remove the extra needles that might shade out and kill interior foliage or new shoots in desireable locations.
Sounds cool.Ready to get this operation going to that stage next season.
 

Gustavo Martins

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There are some JBP here in the landscape in the Azores and I believe they do OK. Zone 11 frost free at lower elevations.
 

Anthony

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J.B.pines that grow here in the Tropics, and grow well,
are adapted to the climate.

The seeds decide,

Some will not germinate, some germinate and die,
some germinate and are poor specimens, few needles,
rangy, look sickly.
Some germinate and are lush, happy, grow well.

For about 3 to 4 years they will grow long candles, and
then as the branches produce branchlets, the candles go to
less than 1/2 an inch.
Tests last year showed September to be our month for the
3 pairs situation.

Growth will slow or cease after November and restart after
or around February.

The Chinese and Japanese, have guided our hands with advice,
by snail mail and today by e-mail,
As well as the S.O.B's especially Sifu [ Adair ]

We use earthenware [ porous] pots and concrete pots.
Any questions ?
Good Day
Anthony
 

Anthony

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Oh, I should also say - all of the stock here is from thia company -


japanese-black-pine-bonsai-tree-seeds.jpg

Following Shibui's information on Ausbonsai, we used hardwood
cuttings and got 1 out 5 growing roots.

Not sure what results the seed we got from Amazon will give,
need 4 years to find out. [ See JBP 6 year ]
Good Day
Anthony
 

Anthony

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Using the terms - Hardwood / softwood cutting as they
were used in the gardening books.
Anthony
 

0soyoung

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So, we do already know that chilling dormancy isn't necessary. My thought, @cmeg1, is that a second winter indoors under lights would put your seedlings about the equivalent of another year down the road = a 3-4 year seedling in 2 years. After this, the sacrifice leader will be too big for a hobbyist's home set-up, I imagine.
 

cmeg1

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Another early start.

Sewn the Pine seeds that been in fridge for two months now!
Probably 600 seeds.
I like orchid spahgnum for cold stratification as it really resists mold.
Planted in #2 perlite in fabric pots for very good air circulation.Proceeded to cover in paper towels till’ they start poppin’.
Some of the seeds were cracking open....that’s always a good sign✌
Here’s to a 15 month growing season🤣
 

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cmeg1

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Planning on a lot of 'infant mortality' or are you building the house addition 'as we speak'? 🤔
I’m actually building a Sun Area on the roof of my mobile home.Like they do in Japan.Its the Sunniest location on my property.........................









🤪✌....actually thought it would be fun to have selection or perhaps experiment with seedling cuttings for fun!!!
 
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cmeg1

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kind of hooked on the idea of experimenting with seedling cuttings!

Especially after seeing the results from @kingsville grower .
My off season operation indoors seems the perfect season extender,after seeing how the Pines turned out with this setup.
Best cuttings I ever made were in a Supersprouter with heat mat and thermometer using Jiffy pellets.
Seems heatmat would be essential.
Thinking about hormones now.
I read on Bonsaitonight that Jonas had most roots using Dip and Grow for 60x longer than instructions say to..... dip for 5 min.instead of 5 sec. !!!!
We shall see.Hopefully tons will sprout.I would like to cut twice....still need to read over Marks thread.
I’m sure we seen these couple pictures...
 

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cmeg1

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Here is Jonas’ blog article on hormones and the Supersprouter that worked good for me.

Want to tinker with this over Winter!
My growlight actually did a better job than I thought it would for the Pines this year!

5B2F0759-411A-4AB6-AFB4-5B28D0F96C01.jpeg36493BF2-13E7-429D-A9A0-1EDA2ACF9E2C.jpeg6C4E9936-C479-4600-A304-03C9D4112E94.jpeg331DE750-22B8-4A75-8E0E-7C12DDDD4279.jpeg
 

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