Growing trident from seed, school me

[Nybonsai12]

I want to try something new next year and give growing from seed a shot. I've been reading the always inspiring blog by Smoke and have a few questions and want to make sure I have it right.

First, what is the best seed source for tridents? I figure I'll probably try a hundred or so. I've heard of angelgrove and a few others but really don't know one from another.

Second, I'm in NY and would like to grow them outside. I can start them inside under lights if necessary or if it would yield a higher success rate.

I believe they should go in hot water for 24 hours and then into the fridge for 60-90 days, correct? In the fridge are they supposed to be in damp sphagnum moss, wet paper towel or something else.

So after the fridge I would sow them in a soil mix after chance of frost has past, correct? Is it also corect that they may sprout in the fridge? Or no?

And then after that it is just water and wait, right?

Thanks in advance for answering any of my questions.

 

[garywood]

NY, pretty much on. It seems you've researched. I grow my own seeds so can't help you there but make sure they are fresh seeds because the drier the seed the lower the germination rate. So soak the seed for at least 24hr. Damp paper towels works fine for small amounts and damp sphagnum or sand or any moisture retentive soil will work for larger amounts. The critical part is not drying out and having enough air circulation to prevent mold (fungus). Damp but not wet. Have fun!

 

[garywood]

NY, I might add; Count backwards from last frost date to begin germination. In the mean time leave the soaked seeds at room temperature in media. If in a bag open occasionally for air exchange

 

[FrankP999]

NYBonsai, you want to be careful the seeds do not rot or develop fungus because they are kept too wet during stratification. I lost several batches in the past from that.

 

[Nybonsai12]

NY, I might add; Count backwards from last frost date to begin germination. In the mean time leave the soaked seeds at room temperature in media. If in a bag open occasionally for air exchange

I was thinking about this more today. Is it possible to start them earliy if utilizing a grow light indoors? And then moving outside when weather is well past any chance of freezing?

 

[Nybonsai12]

So it's been just about 30 days since I scarified and through them in the fridge. I happened to look at the bag today while moving stuff and I noticed some sprouted? Is it normal? I feel like it's way too early to start taking apart the moss? But I don't want to lose any viable seedlings, so anybody got advice in what to do?

 

[Eric Schrader]

I'd get them out and into soil pronto, otherwise they'll die in there and start rotting.

If you have frigid weather ahead then just keep them protected until spring arrives. I'd think that tridents will do fine indoors for 4-5 months. (although I've not tried it.)

I have a batch that I'm about to soak. Here in SF we don't get freezing temps so an early start to spring is a good way to make the growing season longer. Come July it's all over for the year!

 

[Nybonsai12]

I'd get them out and into soil pronto, otherwise they'll die in there and start rotting.

If you have frigid weather ahead then just keep them protected until spring arrives. I'd think that tridents will do fine indoors for 4-5 months. (although I've not tried it.)

I have a batch that I'm about to soak. Here in SF we don't get freezing temps so an early start to spring is a good way to make the growing season longer. Come July it's all over for the year!

Thanks for the info! I was not expecting is at all so I am a bit unprepared. I think I have some turface and regular potting soil on hand that I can mix and put them in. But keeping them protected is going to be tough. Things are just starting to get cold here and there are going to be plenty of days ahead with below freezing temps. I could stick them in my garage but not sure yet about what temps in there will be like, I'm experimenting with wintering just a handful of my trees in there this year.

It would be crazy to put them in soil,bring indoors and place under grow lights right? I'm new to seeds so in my head I feel like that would get me a longer growing season, but wasn't sure how that would effect them trying to go dormant next year.

 

[Bunjeh]

Me too.

I was thinking about this more today. Is it possible to start them earliy if utilizing a grow light indoors? And then moving outside when weather is well past any chance of freezing?

NY: I ordered some from http://www.treehelp.com/ 50 seeds for $6.00. I actually received over 110 seeds. I have planted maples from seed in the past and, seriously, I have had the best success letting nature do the work. Last time I simply filled a flat with vermiculite, sand and peat moss, planted the seeds 1/2" deep, covered it with leaves and set it outside from DEC-MAR. First day of Spring I put the tray into my green house. Got about an 80% germination rate. I am doing the same this year with Trident, Chinese Juniper, Amur Maple, Ulmus Parvifolia, and Dawn Redwood.

 

[Robertji]

NY, you would be fine to put them in potting soil in a bright window for the winter and planting them in the spring. A couple of years ago I got too impatient and started trident seeds in the fall and grew them indoors all winter though I tried to keep them humid by placing in an empty aquarium and covering the top. Outgrew the lid! I am in Southern Ontario zone 5b so very similar conditions to yours. The following spring I planted mine in the ground to grow them out. Lost a bunch but some are still going, couple of tough winters under their belts.

 

[garywood]

So it's been just about 30 days since I scarified and through them in the fridge. I happened to look at the bag today while moving stuff and I noticed some sprouted? Is it normal? I feel like it's way too early to start taking apart the moss? But I don't want to lose any viable seedlings, so anybody got advice in what to do?

NY, is there any particular reason you started them so early?

 

[Bunjeh]

Ooops.

NY: I ordered some from http://www.treehelp.com/ 50 seeds for $6.00. I actually received over 110 seeds. I have planted maples from seed in the past and, seriously, I have had the best success letting nature do the work. Last time I simply filled a flat with vermiculite, sand and peat moss, planted the seeds 1/2" deep, covered it with leaves and set it outside from DEC-MAR. First day of Spring I put the tray into my green house. Got about an 80% germination rate. I am doing the same this year with Trident, Chinese Juniper, Amur Maple, Ulmus Parvifolia, and Dawn Redwood.

I was mistaken. They advertise 40 seeds for $6.00 not 50. Still I got over 100 seeds in the packet.

 

[Great Falcon]

My two cents, I grow my Ginkgoes, trident maples and Zelkovas from seeds, what Happened I believe is that the seeds where already started "stratified" by seller or collected a different time of the year, that's how I buy mine from places that already got them stratified that means to me that they are fresh, and save me time and worries like you have now, I would put those already sprouting in sand indoors with enough light, but it I have to stratified myself I make sure the seller hasn't done anything with them yet, after making sure of that I keep them in my fridge for 60 days counting back from spring on my calendar that way it will give me an accurate time to warmer days just in case they start earlier if everything goes well after the 60 days I put all seeds in sand or seed starter soil thing, outside getting all weather there is but not letting them dry out, and when the seeds start showing signs of life I put them on morning sun only so they won't get burned, they will shot like a rocket.

 

[Nybonsai12]

NY, is there any particular reason you started them so early?

90-120 day stratification wouldn't have them coming out until very end of February. My plan was to start indoors.

 

[Nybonsai12]

what Happened I believe is that the seeds where already started "stratified" by seller or collected a different time of the year, .

i thought about that as a possibility but the seller indicated stratification was necessary.

They also included free blue spruce seeds which apparently don't require stratification at all according to the information they gave me.

 

[Bunjeh]

Think about nature

i thought about that as a possibility but the seller indicated stratification was necessary.

They also included free blue spruce seeds which apparently don't require stratification at all according to the information they gave me.

For billions of years seed were falling on the ground, being covered with leaves and snow and then sprouting the following year. Unless there is a reason for hurrying so an artificial process is required,..throw them on the ground, cover them with leaves and let nature handle the stratification.

 

[Nybonsai12]

These had to have been stratified! It's on. Last pic is blue spruce starting to poke out, seller included for free when I bought the maple seeds.

 

[Smoke]

These had to have been stratified! It's on. Last pic is blue spruce starting to poke out, seller included for free when I bought the maple seeds.

Just fresh....

 

[Smoke]

That is the bad thing about purchasing seed online. Old seed is terrible, fresh seed will grow very easy. Maples should pop as easy as elms. Elms will grow in a crack in the sidewalk. If the seed is old they will languish.

I pulled seed this year right off a tree. I will be planting mine out next week. I will also sow some coral bark maple seed this year also. I wish to see it on its own roots.

 

[Nybonsai12]

I guess fresh seeds going early is better than seeds not going at all! I am enjoying seeing new green dots emerging daily. Hopefully they keep coming.

Growing the coral bark from seed should be fun. Hope to see some pics! The seed is rare right? Most people try to buy grafts and layer I would assume.