Guidance for Kotohime

Eric Group

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#81
Well, if you are going for an informal upright with good movement, a more dramatic chop is probably in order here... leaving that log, straight trunk line is always going be that- a long, straight trunk with a few slight bends...

So, I'd say a more natural, taller, modified broom is an option, or going hard, chopping low and going for a good low bend... the virts you posted have somewhat clunky movement in the trunks, not dramatic enough for a little Shohin if you want my opinion.
 

JoeR

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#82
Well, if you are going for an informal upright with good movement, a more dramatic chop is probably in order here... leaving that log, straight trunk line is always going be that- a long, straight trunk with a few slight bends...

So, I'd say a more natural, taller, modified broom is an option, or going hard, chopping low and going for a good low bend... the virts you posted have somewhat clunky movement in the trunks, not dramatic enough for a little Shohin if you want my opinion.
Point taken, I'll think on it for a while.
 

JoeR

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#84
Or... air layer right below the fork to create a twin trunk design?
Hmmm... hadn't thought about that. But, again, the issue there is I just repotted it- so I can't airlayer until next year. The base is actually decent now, and I wonder if I airlayer it there if it would be enough to still make something out of the base too? Don't want to waste it..


Thanks for the input, definitely taken into consideration.
 

JoeR

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#85
I assume you meant the first main fork? The right "trunk" also forks again, which could make a decent twin trunk- but I'd have to check
 

JoeR

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#87
I think I'm going to not do anything and let it just grow for this year- any oppositions? Of course I'll b epropagating like crazy though of course...
 

JoeR

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#88
Well my little twig in a pot is looking real good a short two years later. It’s actually got a lot of taper now at the base, Volcano-esque IMO. Twig to stumpy volcano isn’t bad in two years.

I was very pleasantly surprised how healthy the root ball was; however, a few roots still grew disproportionately large despite the board it was on. They were removed and/or adjusted. But overall the nebari has developed wel, ballooning over 3” tapering to a trunk of less than 1”. In the pics with the tree potted the nebari is buried under roughly an inch of soil to encourage a few more roots to fill in some gaps, especially in the back.

So I have two options; take it to a branchless stump and chop further, or leave it as is and try to create a natural broom as @Eric Group suggested, allowing each stump to divide to two branches and so on. I really can’t decide as I like the idea of a tall, feminine literati type tree too. Maybe the maple master @MACH5 has a suggestion?

Of course some pictures! Side note- It was tacked on a board again, although the pictures don’t show it.

Before:
3D676C2A-B418-45F7-8BB5-FF2B0FB99982.jpeg 7E0EBA70-158D-4758-A452-B448815FB0F7.jpeg

Look at them roots!
BA46B49C-95A8-4B54-AA04-A7BA092E61F1.jpeg

And that beautiful base! 04EB4D16-70F3-4E63-8411-C8F3DDF35F86.jpeg

Carnage;
4C6C4299-CE9C-40B1-BABE-65056ED98877.jpeg

As she stands now; 24CAE2B5-2868-412F-A860-DC8CAA62DCC4.jpeg

Debating this:
18112241-3A8F-4B75-8AED-5D37220E54DD.png
B0962303-AB62-4702-83A9-EDC5B77326F2.jpeg
 

Adair M

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#90
You need to using a much more shallow growing pot. An Anderson flat would be better. Or build a grow box. The idea is to get the roots to grow outwards, away from the trunk. Not downwards. Just setting the rootball on a tile is insufficient. Roots REALLY want yo grow straight down. And they can push a tree up out of the pot when they find the bottom! The best way is to cut the root ball flat. Get all the way under trunk. You can bareroot Maples. Screw the tree onto a board. The screw comes from under the board up into the trunk from the bottom. That prevents the roots from pushing the tree out of the pot.
 

MACH5

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#91
I think I would try and build my canopy out of what you have now into a broom style tree. Not a broom in the strictest sense but broom in general look and feel. I don't think I'd chop it all to a single trunk. Your leader on the lower branch is coming from the inside. It should be located towards the outside.
 

JoeR

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#92
You need to using a much more shallow growing pot. An Anderson flat would be better. Or build a grow box. The idea is to get the roots to grow outwards, away from the trunk. Not downwards. Just setting the rootball on a tile is insufficient. Roots REALLY want yo grow straight down. And they can push a tree up out of the pot when they find the bottom! The best way is to cut the root ball flat. Get all the way under trunk. You can bareroot Maples. Screw the tree onto a board. The screw comes from under the board up into the trunk from the bottom. That prevents the roots from pushing the tree out of the pot.
Yes sir I know! I simply wasn’t expecting spring this early and didn’t have any suitable pots yet. However this has been screwed onto a piece of plywood for one season now and this year will be the second. Yes, screws and a 6” plywood board. The roots are very flat now, I should have taken a picture. Considering what it started as the nebari has developed very well, don’t you agree? Because it’s been screwed to the board the base had thickened dramatically. I think it’s actually closer to 4” at the bottom. Absolutely the best way to develop a maple.

Also, not to be contradictory, but William Valavanis reccomends a deep 1-2 gallon pot for growing these maples out. So far so good, and like sorce said on page one everything beyond the board should and will get cut off anyway. It’s so hard to keep the roots cool and moist here as it is, add on to that a shallow pot...
 
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JoeR

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#93
I think I would try and build my canopy out of what you have now into a broom style tree. Not a broom in the strictest sense but broom in general look and feel. I don't think I'd chop it all to a single trunk. Your leader on the lower branch is coming from the inside. It should be located towards the outside.
Thanks, I agree- it’s decided. And I don’t know how I left that twig there, meant to remove it.
 

Adair M

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#94
Yes sir I know! I simply wasn’t expecting spring this early and didn’t have any suitable pots yet. However this has been screwed onto a piece of plywood for one season now and this year will be the second. Yes, screws and a 6” plywood board. The roots are very flat now, I should have taken a picture. Considering what it started as the nebari has developed very well, don’t you agree? Because it’s been screwed to the board the base had thickened dramatically. I think it’s actually closer to 4” at the bottom. Absolutely the best way to develop a maple.

Also, not to be contradictory, but William Valavanis reccomends a deep 1-2 gallon pot for growing these maples out. So far so good, and like sorce said on page one everything beyond the board should and will get cut off anyway. It’s so hard to keep the roots cool and moist here as it is, add on to that a shallow pot...
Your roots/nebari are a buttress style. Almost Sumo!

I prefer a broader base, more of a pancake style:

BF2B791C-3456-4379-97AE-202B9A8571D2.jpeg

Which is why I suggested a wider, shallower pot.

Your style may be more pleasing to your eye, and that’s ok!
 

JoeR

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#95
Your roots/nebari are a buttress style. Almost Sumo!

I prefer a broader base, more of a pancake style:

View attachment 179472

Which is why I suggested a wider, shallower pot.

Your style may be more pleasing to your eye, and that’s ok!
Point taken. The board should still help for this year, and next year I can plan on going for the shallow pot.
 

JoeR

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#96
This thing is exploding! In a good way! There’s tons of shoots coming from the same spot everywhere, and it’s super dense with growth. The leaves have reverted to normal JM size, I’m sure temporarily. I don’t know if I need to remove some of the ridiculous amount of shoots or just the large leaves. Idk.

I took cuttings after I chopped it, and today I accidentally knocked one pot over and found that some are already rooting! Look at them ther fat roots.
 

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MACH5

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#97
This thing is exploding! In a good way! There’s tons of shoots coming from the same spot everywhere, and it’s super dense with growth. The leaves have reverted to normal JM size, I’m sure temporarily. I don’t know if I need to remove some of the ridiculous amount of shoots or just the large leaves. Idk.

I took cuttings after I chopped it, and today I accidentally knocked one pot over and found that some are already rooting! Look at them ther fat roots.

Good growing Joe! When the leaves harden off, cut the largest leaves off if you want. Honestly, I don't think you even need to do that at this point of development. However, I would clear up any congested areas by cutting off unnecessary shoots. That's the beauty and curse of this cultivar.
 

JoeR

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#98
Good growing Joe! When the leaves harden off, cut the largest leaves off if you want. Honestly, I don't think you even need to do that at this point of development. However, I would clear up any congested areas by cutting off unnecessary shoots. That's the beauty and curse of this cultivar.
Thanks!

Congested- that’s the perfect word for it. There’s way too many shoots coming from everywhere I can’t even clearly see the trunk. But its a good problem to have, I was worried it wouldn’t bud all the way to the chops but it looks like it did. I’ll have to clean it up a bit tomorrow.

Do you have a kotohime? Sounds like you implied you do have one, I know you have kiyohime among others but I don’t recall reading about any kotos.
 

MACH5

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#99
Thanks!

Congested- that’s the perfect word for it. There’s way too many shoots coming from everywhere I can’t even clearly see the trunk. But its a good problem to have, I was worried it wouldn’t bud all the way to the chops but it looks like it did. I’ll have to clean it up a bit tomorrow.

Do you have a kotohime? Sounds like you implied you do have one, I know you have kiyohime among others but I don’t recall reading about any kotos.
Yes I do. I used to have a real nice one that I sold. But I kept an air layer off of that one that I will try an develop as a twin trunk. So I am familiar with their growth habit. Below was the one I had.

 

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