Happy Bonsai

greerhw

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"I guess I'm confused, what imports are being brought into this country that are not already here ?"

Uh, it's got nothing to do with the particular species per se, species that are imported are also grown domestically, which does away with the chance of acciendental introduction of disease (as does quarrantine in a certified greenhouse). Restrictions have to do with avoiding what COMES IN ON THAT SPECIES. It can be all sorts of crap --insects, fungus, etc in the soil, in the trunk, in the vascular system. Imported lumber introduced Dutch Elm Disease, Chestnut blight, and other very very bad things came in on plant products in the first part of the 20th century before restrictions were placed.

There is a huge threat coming from Asia with unknown fungal infections, insects and diseases. Asian Longhorn beetle is one of the worst, Introduced infestations have been dealt with severely in the U.S.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asian_long-horned_beetle...


It seems I remember my grandma telling me about sixty years ago, something about closing the barn door after the horse has escaped.

keep it green,
Harry
 

rockm

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Well, I guess we should just let this stuff happen then...:rolleyes:

The horse is not out of the barn, not by a longshot.
 
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greerhw

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Well, I guess we should just let this stuff happen then...:rolleyes:

The horse is not out of the barn.

All flu strains start in Hong Kong, so to elminate flu, we should kill all the residents.

keep it green,
Harry
 

rockm

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Good God...Do I really have to explain this?

Flu strains don't grow in dirt, are not transmitted by dirt or by trees. They are transmitted by people who can move around. Comparing diseases in humans to diseases in plants is apples and oranges.

Plants are stationary. They cannot board aircraft by themselves or load themselves onto ships. The can't drive very well either, although it could be argued that there are more than a few carrot-brained people behind the wheel.

Disease is easier to contain if the patient can't move without aid from an organism that can move.
 

greerhw

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Good God...Do I really have to explain this?

Flu strains don't grow in dirt, are not transmitted by dirt or by trees. They are transmitted by people who can move around. Comparing diseases in humans to diseases in plants is apples and oranges.

Plants are stationary. They cannot board aircraft by themselves or load themselves onto ships. The can't drive very well either, although it could be argued that there are more than a few carrot-brained people behind the wheel.

Disease is easier to contain if the patient can't move without aid from an organism that can move.

OK, from now on know one from China can come to the USA, no one can go to China, no one that's ever been to China can enter our country, problem solved, using your logic. Sounds good to me. No more frigging tainted food either. This topic bores me, I'm through.

keep it green,
Harry
 
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Harry dear...

If you had someone bring in a tree with Asian longhorns or citrus beetle into your neighborhood... you'd care very much... as your trees would have to be destroyed. I think that's reason enough to care.

In 2001, when there were some citrus beetles found at Bonsai Northwest that came in with a shipment... they had to cut down all the trees for 1/4 mile radius... innoculate an 8 square mile area, totaling about 1million in costs... and $100,000 in lost trees and rev for BNW when this happened.

Houses across the 8 lane 1-5 corridor tried to sue to stop the state from taking down their trees... beliving the bug could not cross the highway, but the courts found in favor of the state to institute these emergency measures... and rightly so. Did we have an infestation based on the 9 exit holes discovered?? no. Was it the radical measures that saved the PNW from an aggressive infestation?? We'll never really know... but we would definitely know if NOT ENOUGH had been done.

The year following this incident is when the Fed introduced the new regs around a 2 year quarantine in the exporting country - in a sealed greenhouse - before introduction to the states.

As a test of what their policies were... I asked Happy Bonsai if they had phytosans... they ignored that question and simply said they had 100% refund guarantee if someone's tree did not arrive alive and healthy. I directly asked if they had a guarantee if the trees were stopped at inspection and never arrived... and they said yes.

None of these things are good things... and none of this is meant to encourage someone to buy from them because they think they would be safe from financial loss. What I will say is they couldn't care less if something nasty got in your backyard... and wiped out every tree for miles around.

Food for thought.

Victrinia
 
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greerhw

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Harry dear...

If you had someone bring in a tree with Asian longhorns or citrus beetle into your neighborhood... you'd care very much... as your trees would have to be destroyed. I think that's reason enough to care.

In 2001, when there were some citrus beetles found at Bonsai Northwest that came in with a shipment... they had to cut down all the trees for 1/4 mile radius... innoculate an 8 square mile area, totaling about 1million in costs... and $100,000 in lost trees and rev for BNW when this happened.

Houses across the 8 lane 1-5 corridor tried to sue to stop the state from taking down their trees... beliving the bug could not cross the highway, but the courts found in favor of the state to institute these emergency measures... and rightly so. Did we have an infestation based on the 9 exit holes discovered?? no. Was it the radical measures that saved the PNW from an aggressive infestation?? We'll never really know... but we would definitely know if NOT ENOUGH had been done.

The year following this incident is when the Fed introduced the new regs around a 2 year quarentine in the exporting country - in a sealed greenhouse - before introduction to the states.

As a test of what their policies were... I asked Happy Bonsai if they had phytosans... they ignored that question and simply said they had 100% refund guarantee if someone's tree did not arrive alive and healthy. I directly asked if they had a guarantee if the trees were stopped at inspection and never arrived... and they said yes.

None of these things are good things... and none of this is meant to encourage someone to buy from them because they think they would be safe from financial loss. What I will say is they couldn't care less if something nasty got in your backyard... and wiped out every tree for miles around.

Food for thought.

Victrinia

Sorry Dear, they're here, but they prefer larger trees than my little bonsai.

keep it green,
Harry
 

mcpesq817

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Really Harry? I can't tell if you really believe this or you're jerking everyone's chain.

Here's an analogy - if some deadly virus to humans first starts in some country overseas, are you saying that we shouldn't do everything in our power to make sure that sick people don't come over to our country and infect our citizens? Sure a few might make it over, but that's better than allowing vast numbers to come over and increase the potential infection rate in our country.

Same thing can be said for invasive species - just substitute the effect on our environment and ecology with the effect on humans. As people have mentioned earlier, some invasive species have been found in bonsai shipments. I believe that some have also been found in the wood used in packing pallets as well.
 

DaveV

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Harry, I think your loosing. Your argument sounds nice if your raising a family of 5. I think that relates to the horse in the barn statement. If you only have five horses, not a problem with that type of reason.
 
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Tachigi

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OK, from now on know one from China can come to the USA, no one can go to China, no one that's ever been to China can enter our country, problem solved, using your logic. Sounds good to me. No more frigging tainted food either. This topic bores me, I'm through.

keep it green,
Harry

Harry, Step away from the scotch bottle. ;)

So your condoning illegal imports, possible enhancement of invasive species, and unfair trade practices for the growers and vendors in the US? This sounds very unlike you. You feeling alright buddy?
 
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awwwwwww.... Harry called me dear... :D

Those pests are on the east coast... but have not ranged across the country yet. And believe me... they are very firm about doing everything they can to stave off the problem from cropping up here.

And it wouldn't matter if the lil critters wanted your trees or not, your state angencies destory every tree in the area that could host them... that would include your bonsai. That's why this is so serious.

I guess I am curious if you are trying to advocate for unrestricted importation... or just think no one should care if people are breaking the law. I could have more appreciation for the former than the later. I know there are a great many laws that are stupid... but I also know there are a great many laws you passionately defend... so I'm just curious if you think this it is stupid to protect our forests from needless destruction... or if this is a wild west stand that you should be able to do what you see is right in your own eyes.

Yours most sincerely and with respect,

Victrinia
 

Klytus

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No wooden pallets to be sent to China,Korea,USA and a couple more localities here.

We also took delivery of packing crates from Virginia so it seems sending wood to EU member states is just fine.
 

greerhw

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You're all right and I'm wrong, end of discussion.

keep it green,
Harry
 

greerhw

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awwwwwww.... Harry called me dear... :D

Those pests are on the east coast... but have not ranged across the country yet. And believe me... they are very firm about doing everything they can to stave off the problem from cropping up here.

And it wouldn't matter if the lil critters wanted your trees or not, your state angencies destory every tree in the area that could host them... that would include your bonsai. That's why this is so serious.

I guess I am curious if you are trying to advocate for unrestricted importation... or just think no one should care if people are breaking the law. I could have more appreciation for the former than the later. I know there are a great many laws that are stupid... but I also know there are a great many laws you passionately defend... so I'm just curious if you think this it is stupid to protect our forests from needless destruction... or if this is a wild west stand that you should be able to do what you see is right in your own eyes.

Yours most sincerely and with respect,

Victrinia

Sorry darlin, they are killing off all of our pines, want pictures and there is nothing anyone can do. We have the dude that handles this for Oklahoma speak at our bonsai meetings every year and there is no way to eradcate them, all you can do is cut down the pines they've already killed as soon as posible, so they don't have anyplace to breed, look it up.

keep it green,
Harry
 

rockm

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"Sorry Dear, they're here, but they prefer larger trees than my little bonsai".

Simply NOT TRUE. The beetle HAS BEEN FOUND IN SEVERAL SHIPMENTS OF IMPORTED BONSAI. That is where they came from and that is the reason APHIS listed bonsai and "dwarfed trees" SPECIFICALLY IN THEIR RESTRICTIONS,

You can stick your fingers in your ears and hum a tune all you want, doesn't make the danger go away, nor make anyone importing bonsai stock illegally any less culpable. If they come for my bonsai because some idiot imported a tree from "Happy Freakin Bonsai" with a large ugly prolific bug in it, I will demand that cheapskate idiot pay me for my loss, or take it out of his hide.
 
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Klytus

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Do you get the Australian Customs and Excise show on tv?

I was watching a few weeks back and in the luggage of an Indian? couple they found this mouldy old carrot in a plastic bag,some kind of travellers lucky fetish.

They turn up all kinds of weird stuff.
 

bumblebee

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There are 2 different Happy Bonsais. One is out of China, and the other one (with a hyphen between the 2 words) is from Japan. I bought a pot from Happy-Bonsai:) and was quite happy with it.

Libby
 

greerhw

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"Sorry Dear, they're here, but they prefer larger trees than my little bonsai".

Simply NOT TRUE. The beetle HAS BEEN FOUND IN SEVERAL SHIPMENTS OF IMPORTED BONSAI. That is where they came from and that is the reason APHIS listed bonsai and "dwarfed trees" SPECIFICALLY IN THEIR RESTRICTIONS,

You can stick your fingers in your ears and hum a tune all you want, doesn't make the danger go away, nor make anyone importing bonsai stock illegally any less culpable. If they come for my bonsai because some idiot imported a tree from "Happy Freakin Bonsai" with a large ugly prolific bug in it, I will demand that cheapskate idiot pay me for my loss, or take it out of his hide.

Are you shitting me , what is it your worried about that isn't here from Japan allready, some kind of asian herpes ?

keep it green,
Harry
 

rockm

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Harry,

In answer to your "question" here are a few:
http://www.oregon.gov/ODA/PLANT/NURSERY/docs/pdf/nurs_nn2_10.pdf?ga=t

A few more:
http://plantsmart.org/backgrounder.php

A few more:
http://alic.arid.arizona.edu/invasive/sub6/p3.shtml

There are literally thousands of virus, fungus, and insects that are native to other parts of the world that pose a threat to plants in the US, but have not gotten a foothold here. Some have been here for a while, that's true. But that's the thing. The devastation that imported organisms have already done here is evidence that protection is warranted.

Why on earth would you argue that simply because some have already entered--and have already cost us our entire population of old growth native chesnuts, elms and soon live oaks in Cal., that we should just let other diseases and insects in with no attempt at protection.

I cannot seen why you are arguing against such protections. It makes no sense.
 
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