Have some Q's on layering a large branch (feeds entire canopy..) from a ficus.*benji* topiary specimen (maybe 1.75" thick..)

[SU2]

Hi guys, got something I'm very very nervous about and hoping for some advice/pointers/etc to help ensure that I don't mess this up, want to layer ^that fat branch, essentially killing the rest of this specimen (unless the lil ficusmacrocarpa whip/thread-grafted-seedling down low on the trunk can keep it going!)

So I've got (2) ficus.benji's (and some macro's but that's another story), one is a 'yardadori' that's established & doing well but of course has a massive trunk-chop-wound, it is there that the layering will ultimately reside (planting/grafting it into the wound!) The other is a topiary, maybe 5' tall, a gnarled trunk that's half deadwood/shari and 1 lonely branch at the top giving the thing it's canopy, it's this large branch that I want to layer (leaving no foliage on the trunk, excepting a lil thread-grafted ficus.*macro* whip at the base!)
Whole tree, will be killed after I remove the layer as the layered branch is the *only* branch (excepting a ficus.macro thread-graft down low on the trunking, thing is thriving but I half suspect it's just throwing roots through deadwood instead of truly having fused, it was threaded through a shari+cambium so entirely possible it never really fused..

[photos]
side-shot of the branch:


So I've got my tan sphagnum screened-while-dry for fines/particulates and have IBA at the ready, will be making the cut in an odd shape/places because I want the rooting to occur in a way that 'fits' the chop-wound on the yardadori so I'll be making a 'template' from that one's chop-wound to use as my guideline for how to shape my cut (and the cut will be about 1.5" tall on the trunking, so that it's a bit taller than the layered-piece is wide) but hope to be sure about some things first:

1 - should I defoliate or prune *to help* with this? I'm at a bit of a conflict because it's wayyyy overdue for both a canopy-prune & root-prune so am unsure how to work the layering into this time-wise or order-wise!

2 - how deep should I be cutting when removing the bark? I see that you remove as-deep-as the bark, the green cambium, but then there's that last 'water layer' before you'd hit sap-wood/heart-wood, I'm unsure if that's supposed to be retained or removed :/

3 - if it's pruned a lot before the layering, I presume that'd mean a smaller root-mass would suffice for this operation (ie smaller root-mass to successfully survive after being removed from the host/topiary)

4 - timing....had planned to do it much earlier in the year and am now unsure if I should even do it in '19, I know it's late-in-season but at the same time, it's a ficus! And I'm in 10a, and the thing is the definition of vigor, and ficus just love the enviro here..everything in me instinctively says it'll be fine, setup the layering now and cut it & transplant-to the yardadori's chop-wound sometime in very-early spring maybe Feb (Ficus keep growing through winter here, as do bougies, they just grow slower but they still grow for sure)

5 - Size: does layering a branch this thick present any unusual facets I should know about? How about the fact that it's the entire canopy-mass that's getting layered?

6 - Aerial-roots *V* 'real roots'....with how readily Ficus' throw aerials in my climate, I expect that the first roots - perhaps the only roots - coming from this to be more 'aerial root' than 'real root', is this something I should be keeping an eye on or caring about distinguishing? Or just once I see my roots in the tan sphagnum, I'm good? (will have it wrapped air-tight with plastic around the loose-enough sphagnum, with a 2nd wrapper of foil over that to prevent light from getting through the 1st layer of plastic-wrap that's holding the sphagnum)


Thanks a ton for any advice/tips on this, am not much for layering but the yardadori needs something in that chop wound and this lovely casdcading branch on the topiary needs a better home than its oversized trunk so this seems "an obvious move" to me, hopefully it all goes to-plan!! Again thanks a lot for any help on this one



~~~~~~~~

PS- re the "Macrocarpa whip thread-grafted into this Benji's trunk", anyone have an answer on whether that should work IE if Macro foliage feeds-from & sustains Benjamina rootstock? You can see that the whip looks healthy, I removed this macro whip from its parent like 5-7wks ago and it's just growing / didn't skip a beat, is starting to swell at its new 'collar' where it meets the trunk, I just can't tell if the thing threw aerials down-into the ratty old shari that runs the length of the trunk on this thing...


And side-view to show vigor, thing is growing same-pace as my other Macro branches:

 

[SU2]

To be clear, while I don't have the layering-edges-template drawn up / copied yet, it will be as-large-as-possible so am aiming to take the entire branch-collar with this layering (and, once rooted, to plant it directly-into the wound on the yardadori, may / likely will use the grinders to dog it out a bit more first to make a 'planter' there, the way ficus throws roots I expect it'll half-fuse & half 'live on-top-of & aerial-root-over' the yardadori, at any rate they *will* become one and I'll no longer have a wound on the yardadori

[PS- am intending to go do some maintenance-pruning on it today, am thinking that maybe that pruning in and of itself is enough to make it worth waiting a week or two before starting? Ficus are so darn cooperative here, I just don't wanna risk pushing too-hard and losing the thing!!]

 

[choppychoppy]

Ok so to be clear. None of this is clear at all bro.

What are you actually trying to accomplish. If it is to take a tree with roots and stick it on top of a new trunk cut to fuse or attach then that's gonna be a big no and a huge waste.

If you are going to layer the top off the big ficus and it will produce a nice tree then just do that and plant it and make a nice tree. Don't bastardize up two trees when the result will be trash.

There are also a lot of problems technically why this will look crappy. First the root mass on the top tree will rot the trunk of the tree under it faster than in can fuse so you will get a slowly rotting tree and an ugly root mass above it.

If you ARE attempting to stick a branch or top on a cut spot, there is a PROPER way to do it and it is called a peg graft.

NONE of this should be done now. Must wait till next year - period.

 

[Warpig]

When learning about air layers, i found this thread to be Well worth the read.

The science of air-layering

Because of the number of questions regarding air-layering on the site, I have attempted to pull together an overview of the science behind air-layering which will directly lead to a list of "best practices" and "frequently asked questions". I am going to try to keep the science really simple...

www.bonsainut.com

 

[SU2]

Ok so to be clear. None of this is clear at all bro.

What are you actually trying to accomplish. If it is to take a tree with roots and stick it on top of a new trunk cut to fuse or attach then that's gonna be a big no and a huge waste.

If you are going to layer the top off the big ficus and it will produce a nice tree then just do that and plant it and make a nice tree. Don't bastardize up two trees when the result will be trash.

There are also a lot of problems technically why this will look crappy. First the root mass on the top tree will rot the trunk of the tree under it faster than in can fuse so you will get a slowly rotting tree and an ugly root mass above it.

If you ARE attempting to stick a branch or top on a cut spot, there is a PROPER way to do it and it is called a peg graft.

NONE of this should be done now. Must wait till next year - period.

Apologies, I can have trouble with clarity (as you know )

And yeah I was thinking that I'd layer that branch & stick it in the chop-wound of my yardadori benjamina....Why such a strong No? I'd be using the chop-wound as a 'template' so the edging would be pretty in-line, the layered branch itself 'works' in the yamma's canopy (works well actually, would totally make that side of the tree!), the ONLY issue I can see is the ugly "two trees smushed to one" look BUT I'd bet money that 2yrs is more-than-enough time for it to have merged-into & smoothed-out enough that no unknowing observer would think the branch wasn't from the original trunking....I'd "plant" the layering into that wound, would even hollow it a bit first (and then burnish the wood) and fill with sphagnum, add the layering/affix into place, that thing would fuse-up its edges, its roots would fill the 'container' I'd hollowed for it and then begin spilling-over the side of the trunking, you're very very right that it'd look like an absolute trainwreck but ficus grow SO fast, and fuse & merge so readily, and their final-stylings allow such crazy aerials & forms, that I just totally don't see how this wouldn't be a slam-dunk (are you anticipating inverse taper or something or do you just not believe it'll effectively merge/fuse in a way that obscures the fact that the layering was ever a separate branch?)

 

[JoeH]

Could you summarize in one or two sentences what you want to do? I got lost trying to read that mess. If I get it, you want to air layer off a branch and graft it to a another ficus? Look on Nigel Saunder's youtube channel I believe he has done that already. And you are right it does grow over and look pretty decent.

 

[choppychoppy]

BUT I'd bet money

Any amount you'd like young man. So once you create roots you will lose the ability for the tree to attach to another tree. The base will callous over and not be able to support the base tree. The root mass of the tree you've plunked on top will destroy any smoothing merging etc. Remember I've seen this whole situation and the trees. The merged sections will rot out the center of the tree. You will basically be left with a slowly rotting and destroyed base tree as the outer tree overtakes it.Like I said if the layer is a nice tree - JUST PLANT IT AND MAKE A NICE TREE. You gotta quit with the whole rushing thing. You are just rushing for what, to try to make something tomorrow so that it can sit there ideally till you're dead. What are you rushing for. Just do stuff right. Quit trying to come up with something different and new just for the sake of it. There are amazing trees and ways to make them - JUST DO IT RIGHT. You are more obsessed with coming up with some 'other' way to do things instead of taking specific advice and applying it directly. Trust me you aren't going to come up with a 'better' way in most cases. Dude we talked about over thinking!!