Hawthorn stumps

colley614

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I have 2 Hawthorn stumps that were dumped close to my home. I stood one in a bucket of water and wrapped the base of the other in sphagnum moss to see what would happen.

The one in the bucket seems to still be alive after 6 months and the other has a few live branches. Is it possible to get them to root or am I slowly delaying the inevitable?
 

AlainK

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Is it possible to get them to root or am I slowly delaying the inevitable?

Have they produced roots ? If not, the chance they'll survive is very low.

A lot of plants can "look" alive when in dormancy, when spring comes, they can even produce new leaves, but these will whither and die rapidly.

... and I don't think that Crataegus is a species that is easy to grow from big cuttings. The one in sphagnum moss is probably more likely to survive, my two € cents' worth.
 

colley614

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Have they produced roots ? If not, the chance they'll survive is very low.

A lot of plants can "look" alive when in dormancy, when spring comes, they can even produce new leaves, but these will whither and die rapidly.

... and I don't think that Crataegus is a species that is easy to grow from big cuttings. The one in sphagnum moss is probably more likely to survive, my two € cents' worth.

I was assuming that would be my general response. I haven't seen any roots. I was tempted to try putting sphagnum moss around the bottom of both and putting them in black bags.
 

AlainK

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If you see some kind of swelling at the bottom of the cut, perhaps it could be worth refreshing them with a sharp cutter, apply some rooting hormones and plant them in growing medium.

If there is no sign of new cells having developped (they're usually "whitish"), then I'm afraid there is no chance at all. :(
 

colley614

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If you see some kind of swelling at the bottom of the cut, perhaps it could be worth refreshing them with a sharp cutter, apply some rooting hormones and plant them in growing medium.

If there is no sign of new cells having developped (they're usually "whitish"), then I'm afraid there is no chance at all. :(
I'll give it a go. Got nothing to loose
 

Shibui

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I have had zero success with hawthorn cuttings but nearly 100% success with transplants, even when roots have been cut back quite hard. If those stumps had even the stumps of roots I think chances are good for survival.
A tub of water is not conducive to success. New roots need air as well as water. Plant them in soil and keep well watered or plant in containers with good quality potting soil then just keep them well watered and wait. Sometimes recovery can be slow and new shoots may not show for weeks or even months after all the trees around have leafed out so do not give up on them too soon.
 

leatherback

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I would pot them up in proper substrate and then play the tickle game of black bags.
 

colley614

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I have had zero success with hawthorn cuttings but nearly 100% success with transplants, even when roots have been cut back quite hard. If those stumps had even the stumps of roots I think chances are good for survival.
A tub of water is not conducive to success. New roots need air as well as water. Plant them in soil and keep well watered or plant in containers with good quality potting soil then just keep them well watered and wait. Sometimes recovery can be slow and new shoots may not show for weeks or even months after all the trees around have leafed out so do not give up on them too soon.
I would pot them up in proper substrate and then play the tickle game of black bags.
What would be the ideal substrate?
 

Shibui

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The ideal substrate will vary depending on your local conditions and how you care for your trees so I cannot tell you what will be best for you.
All my trees go in the same mix that I use for bonsai, transplants and grow pots. Type of mix only becomes really critical in shallow pots. Transplants in deeper pots and larger containers can do well in any reasonable potting soil.
I also have good success transplanting new collected and root pruned trees straight into the grow beds. Any good garden soil will do but it is essential the new roots do not dry out in the first spring and summer so they do need to be watered well and regularly if they are to survive. I sometimes don't remember to water the transplants out in the grow beds. Plants in pots are looked after much better so success rates of potted transplants is generally better for the ones in pots here but that is only due to care, not necessarily location.
 

colley614

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The ideal substrate will vary depending on your local conditions and how you care for your trees so I cannot tell you what will be best for you.
All my trees go in the same mix that I use for bonsai, transplants and grow pots. Type of mix only becomes really critical in shallow pots. Transplants in deeper pots and larger containers can do well in any reasonable potting soil.
I also have good success transplanting new collected and root pruned trees straight into the grow beds. Any good garden soil will do but it is essential the new roots do not dry out in the first spring and summer so they do need to be watered well and regularly if they are to survive. I sometimes don't remember to water the transplants out in the grow beds. Plants in pots are looked after much better so success rates of potted transplants is generally better for the ones in pots here but that is only due to care, not necessarily location.
I have bonsai soil I can pot it up in. Do I use rooting hormone?
 

Shibui

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I have been told that rooting hormone does not make nay difference on roots. Roots already know how to grow new roots so do not need hormone stimulation.
If there are no roots as mentioned above, hormone is also unlikely to help because hawthorn just don't seem to be able to grow roots from stems.

Your normal bonsai soil should be ideal s you should already know how much water is right to keep it evenly moist.
 

leatherback

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Should I bang some chopped sphagnum moss in the mix?
I see no reason for it, tbh. I have one pack of spaghnum, something like 500g dried. Bought it 6 years ago. Still half left. So that is how much I use of the stuff.
 

treepirate

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Colley bit of advice... Go and buy few bags of sharp sand from builders merchants... If you come across any trees like that again dig a hole in your garden fill it up with sand and literally forget about them for couple of years.
Root rot is more of an issue than drying out... I've collected a fair amount of trees and pot rot has been number 1 killer by far.

Pink Danish clay (sanicat) is also OK for collected trees if your looking to pot them up...
Kaizen pine mix is okay too...
If you are potting them... Drench with water then let it dry, drench, dry out... Do that for few weeks then water as normal.
 

colley614

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Colley bit of advice... Go and buy few bags of sharp sand from builders merchants... If you come across any trees like that again dig a hole in your garden fill it up with sand and literally forget about them for couple of years.
Root rot is more of an issue than drying out... I've collected a fair amount of trees and pot rot has been number 1 killer by far.

Pink Danish clay (sanicat) is also OK for collected trees if your looking to pot them up...
Kaizen pine mix is okay too...
If you are potting them... Drench with water then let it dry, drench, dry out... Do that for few weeks then water as normal.
I have a big bag of silver sand and another builders sand. I have sanicat mixed with perlite.
 

treepirate

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I have a big bag of silver sand and another builders sand. I have sanicat mixed with perlite.
How do you get on with the perlite? ... I tried it many moons ago and found it floated out the pots when watering... Its also terrible at holding any nutrition...
Not that Danish clay is much better...
It's all a hell of a lot cheaper than pure pumice tho which any real quality yamadori absolutely deserves
 
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