HD Pinus Nigra

Hartinez

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Hi there. Im on Bonsai Nut often, but rarely do I pose questions and/or chime in on threads and discussions. Ive decided that needs to change. Im going into my 6th year as an enthusiast and have a nice collection of trees in all stages of design. Nothing Id call a masterpiece just yet, but work I'm very happy with. Everything from collected Yamadori, to shohin nursery stock I bought in my first couple of years. My success rate at keeping trees alive has greatly increased over the last couple of years, especially with my native Juniperus Monsperma here in New Mexico. My styling skills are also coming along nicely.

To the point. though I buy quite a bit less from big box stores I always look through the discounted and clearance stock when fall rolls around. While going through HD the other day I happened upon these two Pinus Nigra on clearance for $15. I own 1 Pinon pine that I collected but have no other pine species as of yet. So my knowledge and experience is very limited. I would love some advice on these 2 trees. They may not ultimately be wonderful specimen, but at $15 a tree, I couldn't pass up the opportunity to learn a bit more about pine work. Ive read quite a bit of info on BonsaiNut on Austrians, but a lot of it seems conflicting.

Each tree has a 2" plus trunk diameter and seemingly healthy. The growth in both cases seems a bit far from from the trunk and all of growth is leggy. I know pines are quite flexible and the possibility of back budding, though difficult, is possible if cultivated properly. Should I prune heavily now so as to not bleed too much sap? The soil on each is basically non existent, as the roots have completely filled each pot.

Let me know if more pictures are needed. I will gladly post more. Ive got an idea of how I want to proceed with these but any and all input would be greatly appreciated. there is 3 photos of each tree. Thanks in advance.
 

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sorce

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Aye those are dope!

I came across 6 at 75% off and none were more then two whorls of perfect ugliness!

These got character!

One flush with a possible second, so far we treat them as one flush pines.
Pruning every second year ish.
Or as @LanceMac10 does his JBP!:p

I killed one this year eff chopping it.
Don't eff chop em!

Sorce
 

Hartinez

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Aye those are dope!

I came across 6 at 75% off and none were more then two whorls of perfect ugliness!

These got character!

One flush with a possible second, so far we treat them as one flush pines.
Pruning every second year ish.
Or as @LanceMac10 does his JBP!:p

I killed one this year eff chopping it.
Don't eff chop em!

Sorce

Yeah I think these, of any Austrian I've seen, Have some potential. The label said strictly Pinus Nigra, but I wonder if they are some different cultivar of Nigra. Anyways, Im just got to prune lightly next spring and repot into a higher quality substrate, then see what kind of back budding I get over a couple of seasons. I think that their is something good with both of these (as long as I don't kill themo_O) Ive got some learning to do, but i'll keep this post updated over time.
 
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Ive always been trying to find out more about them development wise, so I lucked out that lots of people around my area have lots of experience with them, one of them is Nigel Saunders, hes got some conflicting views about bonsai but hes got a lot of videos about his pretty sweet Austrian pine. Its worth watching a few of them
Im still looking for some killer material like yours!
 

Hartinez

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Ive always been trying to find out more about them development wise, so I lucked out that lots of people around my area have lots of experience with them, one of them is Nigel Saunders, hes got some conflicting views about bonsai but hes got a lot of videos about his pretty sweet Austrian pine. Its worth watching a few of them
Im still looking for some killer material like yours!
Hey John! Thanks for the reply. Ive watched many of Nigels videos, this one included. I love his temperament and pace in all of his vids. I see potential in what I've got, just want to make sure to take the right steps.
 

bonsaichile

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I have 2 of these trees, both from Lowe's. One I have in a colander to develop finer roots; the other in the ground. Their needles can get quite long, but I have had some success reducing them by pinching the candles in spring. Backbudding has not been as predictable or reliable, but there is some. Pinching the candles does allow for a better ramification, though, as new buds will form in what's left of the candle, and will elongate the following spring (this are single flush). Pull the old needles now in the Fall; structural pruning and wiring in Winter; and then treat them as JWP Spring and Summer. They love lots of sunshine and like to dry out between waterings. With a good fertilizing regime they are quite vigorous, but a bit coarse, which is why Walter Pall recommends to use them for bigger bonsai.

Good finds, btw! Looking forward to see how these develop.
 

Hartinez

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Aye those are dope!

I came across 6 at 75% off and none were more then two whorls of perfect ugliness!

These got character!

One flush with a possible second, so far we treat them as one flush pines.
Pruning every second year ish.
Or as @LanceMac10 does his JBP!:p

I killed one this year eff chopping it.
Don't eff chop em!

Sorce
Hey Sorce!! The concesus I'm getting on Pinus Nigra or Austrian black pine is that they are a single flush species. Ive watched this Ryan Neil video on single flush pine refinement and development about 5 times at this point and I will follow the steps accordingly. Seems to make sense. At about the 12:30 mark he talks specifically about the difference between back budding on single flush and double flush. He is using scots as an example but I'm going to try the same technique with my Austrian.

 

sorce

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Hey Sorce!! The concesus I'm getting on Pinus Nigra or Austrian black pine is that they are a single flush species. Ive watched this Ryan Neil video on single flush pine refinement and development about 5 times at this point and I will follow the steps accordingly. Seems to make sense. At about the 12:30 mark he talks specifically about the difference between back budding on single flush and double flush. He is using scots as an example but I'm going to try the same technique with my Austrian.

I'm with that...

Just allows yourself the freedom to find...

The right ...YOUR way!

There should be room for improvement from directly as Scots.

But that is an excellent starting point!

Sorce
 

Hartinez

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Update.

Here is one of the 2 pines as of today. This one I worked hard. Did not completely rake the roots but knocked and sprayed free about 30ish % of the existing nursery rootball and planted in 80% pumice and 20% organic matter. Then I chopped HARD. Originally thought the thick trunk line would be turned to deadwood leaving the thinner trunk line with branches as the new leader. I clipped all of the candles and new growth on the thin trunk and cut the thick trunk all the way back to a large worl and removed all of the branches.

To my delight, I’ve got new buds pushing out EVERYWHERE. Along old growth candles and branches, along the thin trunk and along the old trunk. I’ll let everything flush through this season then re-evaluate. 2C0B21F8-44F3-4D87-B6D1-1CB01AFAA213.jpegE3F4C2F3-293B-4826-88DB-C0E043622339.jpegE5C267F2-2193-4219-8893-E340A6B70034.jpegEB8A4D58-BE02-4B04-BABB-0686BEC10B0B.jpegBCA700EF-F5FF-4CBA-AB54-1FB0418DBFB1.jpeg
 

A. Gorilla

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That is what I’ve been experiencing too. Those young nursery trunks give you plenty of buds everywhere. Good window of time to exploit. The plated bark on my older one, not so much.
 

Hartinez

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Mos
That is what I’ve been experiencing too. Those young nursery trunks give you plenty of buds everywhere. Good window of time to exploit. The plated bark on my older one, not so much.
most of my trees are deciduous or junipers of different variety’s. My experience with pines is close to zero. Id heard that pines, Austrians in particular, will push buds when chopped like this but wasn’t certain. With the second pine from this thread, I was far more conservative to both roots and branching. I’m not seeing near the response that this one is showing. I’m pretty pumped up really.
 

Hartinez

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Here’s the other tree. Knocked only a bit of the soil out of the door ball and trimmed a few larger branches. Cut back several new growth candles but was conservative. I’ve got some budding and growth from candles left on the trunk, but again not near the push the other tree is showing.6EB1C312-5983-46CC-9B4B-82C27C27267C.jpeg
 

BE.REAL

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This one I worked hard. Did not completely rake the roots but knocked and sprayed free about 30ish % of the existing nursery rootball and planted in 80% pumice and 20% organic matter. Then I chopped HARD.
@Hartinez , I have a few that I was given and was going to do everything stated above, but not the chop back till next season, curious did you do all this in one shot?
Thanks. was gonna experiement and do 3 different things and see how they go, but need the back budding for future, soooo :)
 
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How are these trees doing? I just picked up a pinus nigra on sale at Lowe’s and I chopped heavy trying to get rid of some serious inverse taper and stop it in its tracks
 

Hartinez

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How are these trees doing? I just picked up a pinus nigra on sale at Lowe’s and I chopped heavy trying to get rid of some serious inverse taper and stop it in its tracks
Dead. Summer heat took them out. In hindsight. I should have dealt with the roots and root ball before chopping any foliage.
 
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Dam, well I didn’t have any circling roots in pot so I chopped hard, in hindsight I should have just wired to allow light in but oh well hopefully she lives
 
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