Hello from West Virginia!

[Wild&Wonderful]

I’ve been practicing bonsai and collecting yamadori/nursery material for the last couple of years. All of my trees are in development. There are no clubs or shows that happen locally, so I was wondering if there were more bonsai practitioners out there in the southern WV area? Would really like to see a local community develop!
Here are some pics just for fun, critique/questions are welcome!

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Welcome Aboard BonsaiNut!

This is a great forum for new learners, it’s chock full of ideas and information for each species and has a great bunch of folks contributing.

You’ve got a good start on a collection. Next step is to get the horticulture of each species in the collection down cold. I Pt would be a great idea to use the search function to find threads to help you get started.

cheers
DSD sends

 

[Gabler]

You may not have much population density, but you have enough mountains and forests in your state that it would be worth your time to learn to collect them. You ought to have no trouble finding Carpinus caroliniana growing in wetter areas, and no shortage of Quercus spp. growing in high and dry areas. Just don’t start out by collecting anything valuable. You’ll likely kill more than a few trees before you learn how to provide sufficient aftercare.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Just remembered. there is an experienced hobbyist on BonsaiNut. @Japonicus that would wa great contact.

You might want to PM him.

Cheers
DSD sends

 

[Japonicus]

Welcome to crazy! I’m near Huntington @Wild&Wonderful
It is true we are in a bonsai desert here.
I get most of my bonsai soil components from bonsaijack.com
I went to my 1st bonsai workshop about 18 months ago in Georgia
with Steve and Sandy Cratty hosting Adair Martin as the teacher.
Plant City Bonsai it was.

I would search for bonsai clubs in Virginia depending how Southern you are lol.
If at all possible I would put that pine JBP? in the ground in full Sun for about 5 yrs
developing the lowest branch as the bonsai, and leave the top be all the while.
Thats the best way to develop its girth. You might practice some techniques on a couple upper branches to see responses and learn from the tree. Start a thread on that specific tree and log your activities.
Tag the tree each time you repot with some plant tags. Records changes and techniques in the thread
to reflect on over the years.

 

[Wild&Wonderful]

Welcome to crazy! I’m near Huntington @Wild&Wonderful
It is true we are in a bonsai desert here.
I get most of my bonsai soil components from bonsaijack.com
I went to my 1st bonsai workshop about 18 months ago in Georgia
with Steve and Sandy Cratty hosting Adair Martin as the teacher.
Plant City Bonsai it was.

I would search for bonsai clubs in Virginia depending how Southern you are lol.
If at all possible I would put that pine JBP? in the ground in full Sun for about 5 yrs
developing the lowest branch as the bonsai, and leave the top be all the while.
Thats the best way to develop its girth. You might practice some techniques on a couple upper branches to see responses and learn from the tree. Start a thread on that specific tree and log your activities.
Tag the tree each time you repot with some plant tags. Records changes and techniques in the thread
to reflect on over the years.

Eastern White Pine! Thank you very much though, and I will look into transplanting it next spring after we have moved and get a thread going. Awesome to see someone else from here lol

 

[Japonicus]

So EWP is right up there with Thunderhead JBP for being notorious for not
conforming to bonsai techniques. Not to say there’s not some nice ones to be seen.
Dwarf EWP might be easier, but JWP rules over either.

Are you sure there’s 5 needles per bundle?
If so, be sure to pinch the candles back 75% just before they open.
Hold just above the base of the candle 1/4 height and twist off the rest.
Do not feed till needles have hardened off. This is the best method to reduce needle length
but EWP still produces long needles, where JWP does not.
Theyre 1 flush unlike JBP, which we handle differently, removing the entire candle later
like 100 days before frost. Then the 2nd flush is shorter. Called decandlin, which is not
performed on single flush pines as given the name, new candles are not guaranteed.
There are some nice EWP bonsai, but most shy away from them.
Their genetics to grow nearly and up to 100’ tall tends to be more than most can wrestle with.
I have a dwarf EWP and it still needs to be at least 24” tall to go with the longer needles.

Grown out in ground does not mean to set and forget.
We still apply bonsai techniques to the non sacrifice portion
and we still dig it up and trim the roots to develop every 2 or 3 yrs.
If not it is less safe for the tree when you move it to a grow box
and the roots are huge too far out with no ramification in the desired footprint.

 

[Wild&Wonderful]

So EWP is right up there with Thunderhead JBP for being notorious for not
conforming to bonsai techniques. Not to say there’s not some nice ones to be seen.
Dwarf EWP might be easier, but JWP rules over either.

Are you sure there’s 5 needles per bundle?
If so, be sure to pinch the candles back 75% just before they open.
Hold just above the base of the candle 1/4 height and twist off the rest.
Do not feed till needles have hardened off. This is the best method to reduce needle length
but EWP still produces long needles, where JWP does not.
Theyre 1 flush unlike JBP, which we handle differently, removing the entire candle later
like 100 days before frost. Then the 2nd flush is shorter. Called decandlin, which is not
performed on single flush pines as given the name, new candles are not guaranteed.
There are some nice EWP bonsai, but most shy away from them.
Their genetics to grow nearly and up to 100’ tall tends to be more than most can wrestle with.
I have a dwarf EWP and it still needs to be at least 24” tall to go with the longer needles.

Grown out in ground does not mean to set and forget.
We still apply bonsai techniques to the non sacrifice portion
and we still dig it up and trim the roots to develop every 2 or 3 yrs.
If not it is less safe for the tree when you move it to a grow box
and the roots are huge too far out with no ramification in the desired footprint.

Thank you for all of the information! I look forward to adding your suggestions to my approach. EWP are significantly abundant in my area, so it’s just free material to practice with. I feel more confident about purchasing material this year. I dug up another EWP a few weeks ago that was is far more developed, but I don’t want to get my hopes up too soon lol. It’s shaded and potted in pumice, lava, and calcined clay with some of the field soil it was growing in.
Can’t thank you enough for all the information!

 

[rockm]

Thank you for all of the information! I look forward to adding your suggestions to my approach. EWP are significantly abundant in my area, so it’s just free material to practice with. I feel more confident about purchasing material this year. I dug up another EWP a few weeks ago that was is far more developed, but I don’t want to get my hopes up too soon lol. It’s shaded and potted in pumice, lava, and calcined clay with some of the field soil it was growing in.
Can’t thank you enough for all the information!

Don't know where you are in W.Va., but FYI, the Potomac Bonsai Association's annual show and festival is coming up in two weeks at the National Arboretum in D.C. Lots of vendors (trees, pots, tools, soils etc), demos, and PBA show. May 5-7. Worth the drive if you're within three or four hours of D.C.

BTW, wouldn't bother with EWP. It's not going to teach you much, as it is pretty marginal bonsai material. Not many EWP bonsai around because it doesn't respond well, or consistently, with bonsai practices. In other words, frustrating to work on even for experts.

W.Va. and Va. have hundreds of species of trees and shrubs that ARE worth the time, from hornbeam, beech, blueberry, pitch pine, blackhaw, wisteria (easy to find this time of year because of the blooms--easy to dig out), the list goes on...

 

[Wild&Wonderful]

Don't know where you are in W.Va., but FYI, the Potomac Bonsai Association's annual show and festival is coming up in two weeks at the National Arboretum in D.C. Lots of vendors (trees, pots, tools, soils etc), demos, and PBA show. May 5-7. Worth the drive if you're within three or four hours of D.C.

BTW, wouldn't bother with EWP. It's not going to teach you much, as it is pretty marginal bonsai material. Not many EWP bonsai around because it doesn't respond well, or consistently, with bonsai practices. In other words, frustrating to work on even for experts.

W.Va. and Va. have hundreds of species of trees and shrubs that ARE worth the time, from hornbeam, beech, blueberry, pitch pine, blackhaw, wisteria (easy to find this time of year because of the blooms--easy to dig out), the list goes on...

Awesome! I’m about 5 hours from DC, but I may have to see if I can get there anyway. Sounds like a good time.
If I have too much trouble with EWPs I may just convert them into unique yard trees.
Going this weekend to look for beech, oak, hornbeam, and more. I will definitely do more research to figure out the different native species that respond well to training.

 

[rockm]

Awesome! I’m about 5 hours from DC, but I may have to see if I can get there anyway. Sounds like a good time.
If I have too much trouble with EWPs I may just convert them into unique yard trees.
Going this weekend to look for beech, oak, hornbeam, and more. I will definitely do more research to figure out the different native species that respond well to training.

A few things--If those trees are leafed out, it's too late to collect them. Don't try if they are. They likely won't survive. Early spring before buds break into leaves is the optimal time to collect. We're mostly past that point here for most native trees. Oak can be the most difficult to collect. Hornbeam is among the easiest.

BTW, collecting trees is not a great way to start bonsai. Collected trees require specific skills that aren't necessarily bonsai related to get them to survive post-collection. And even if you get them through a year after digging, they're likely not strong enough to begin bonsai training. That can take 2-5 years, depending on the species and condition after digging.

Best way to get an understanding of bonsai care is to get an actual bonsai. Doesn't have to be expensive or all that developed. Beginner bonsai, best introductory outdoor trees are probably Chinese elm, are available at online places like Brussels bonsai.

 

[Japonicus]

If you ever do go out to collect, and a tree if leafed out
and they're promising, a stand out colour ribbon can be tied loosely to make
finding them next time easier. Maybe even writing the species on the ribbon and logging a general map
on paper. But yes, that's another time.
Watch collected threads, ask questions, and scout, but don't collect yet.

 

[tkroeker]

A few things--If those trees are leafed out, it's too late to collect them. Don't try if they are. They likely won't survive. Early spring before buds break into leaves is the optimal time to collect. We're mostly past that point here for most native trees. Oak can be the most difficult to collect. Hornbeam is among the easiest.

BTW, collecting trees is not a great way to start bonsai. Collected trees require specific skills that aren't necessarily bonsai related to get them to survive post-collection. And even if you get them through a year after digging, they're likely not strong enough to begin bonsai training. That can take 2-5 years, depending on the species and condition after digging.

Best way to get an understanding of bonsai care is to get an actual bonsai. Doesn't have to be expensive or all that developed. Beginner bonsai, best introductory outdoor trees are probably Chinese elm, are available at online places like Brussels bonsai.

Agree, My question is about the roots. I am sure the process is slow but want to know more about the process.
at the right time of year just as bud breaks for leaves, chop the roots hard since they are to long before the fine hairs? Then root hormone and bonsai soil in larger training pot or box? 1-2 years waiting for root ramification?

That's my big interest right now

Thanks

 

[Gabler]

Agree, My question is about the roots. I am sure the process is slow but want to know more about the process.
at the right time of year just as bud breaks for leaves, chop the roots hard since they are to long before the fine hairs? Then root hormone and bonsai soil in larger training pot or box? 1-2 years waiting for root ramification?

That's my big interest right now

Thanks

It depends on what and where you’re collecting. For many deciduous trees, you can remove effectively all of the roots at collection. For others, you’ll need a bit of fine root mass for the tree to survive collection, and even then the tree will be weak for a few years until it gets reestablished, at which point you can gradually reduce the root ball further. For pretty much all conifers, you’ll want a big root ball, full of feeder roots, with the field soil still attached. If you’re collecting in sandy locations, you might find the primary roots are too long and sparse to safely collect the tree at all. In a good field soil with high organic content, you’re more likely to find a lot of fine feeder roots close to the trunk, and it’ll be easier to get enough roots in a smaller ball of soil. In the mountains or rocky terrain, you might get lucky and find a tree in a rock pocket functioning as a natural pot. In each case, the care requirements differ.

When you start, practice collecting young saplings. They’re more vigorous, and it’s no great loss when you inevitably kill one or ten of them. If you see something that looks special, leave it for a few years until you’re confident you can keep it alive after you collect it and confident your confidence is well-founded.

 

[rockm]

Agree, My question is about the roots. I am sure the process is slow but want to know more about the process.
at the right time of year just as bud breaks for leaves, chop the roots hard since they are to long before the fine hairs? Then root hormone and bonsai soil in larger training pot or box? 1-2 years waiting for root ramification?

That's my big interest right now

Thanks

Bascially...except adding rooting hormones to cut roots is useless. Rooting hormones chemically signal NON-ROOT tissue to become root tissue. Adding it to root tissues is redundant since those already ARE roots. Hormone work for air layers and top cuttings on branches, where there aren't any roots...

 

[tkroeker]

Excellent!! Exactly what I was needing. Thanks

It depends on what and where you’re collecting. For many deciduous trees, you can remove effectively all of the roots at collection. For others, you’ll need a bit of fine root mass for the tree to survive collection, and even then the tree will be weak for a few years until it gets reestablished, at which point you can gradually reduce the root ball further. For pretty much all conifers, you’ll want a big root ball, full of feeder roots, with the field soil still attached. If you’re collecting in sandy locations, you might find the primary roots are too long and sparse to safely collect the tree at all. In a good field soil with high organic content, you’re more likely to find a lot of fine feeder roots close to the trunk, and it’ll be easier to get enough roots in a smaller ball of soil. In the mountains or rocky terrain, you might get lucky and find a tree in a rock pocket functioning as a natural pot. In each case, the care requirements differ.

When you start, practice collecting young saplings. They’re more vigorous, and it’s no great loss when you inevitably kill one or ten of them. If you see something that looks special, leave it for a few years until you’re confident you can keep it alive after you collect it and confident your confidence is well-foun

 

[tkroeker]

Bascially...except adding rooting hormones to cut roots is useless. Rooting hormones chemically signal NON-ROOT tissue to become root tissue. Adding it to root tissues is redundant since those already ARE roots. Hormone work for air layers and top cuttings on branches, where there aren't any roots...

Thats great info! Thank you.

 

[mrcasey]

The Ki No Kaze bonsai club, of which I'm a member, meets once a month in Wood County, WV. We're just north of Parkersburg.

 

[Wild&Wonderful]

If you ever do go out to collect, and a tree if leafed out
and they're promising, a stand out colour ribbon can be tied loosely to make
finding them next time easier. Maybe even writing the species on the ribbon and logging a general map
on paper. But yes, that's another time.
Watch collected threads, ask questions, and scout, but don't collect yet.

Did that today! Found some cool hornbeam that had already leafed out and a few beech that hadn’t, so I collected those. Made sure to get plenty of fine roots and soil.

 

[Wild&Wonderful]

Did that today! Found some cool hornbeam that had already leafed out and a few beech that hadn’t, so I collected those. Made sure to get plenty of fine roots and soil.

Collected the beech, left the hornbeam with ribbon.