Help ficus styling advice

[walton1993]

Hi everyone!

My dad has a ficus that wasn’t taken care of very well over the last 5 years (i.e. thick wire marks, some inverse taper, awkward branches etc.)

I’m still new to bonsai but I’ve made the first step to clean up the tree - about 2 months ago, I defoliated the tree, took out some of the awkward branches, and partially wired the branches.

I was hoping to get styling advice on how I can restyle the tree and perhaps identify which could be the best front. Any advice is greatly appreciated. Thanks!

Note: I believe the first picture attached is the original front.

 

[Schmikah]

Hi everyone!

My dad has a ficus that wasn’t taken care of very well over the last 5 years (i.e. thick wire marks, some inverse taper, awkward branches etc.)

I’m still new to bonsai but I’ve made the first step to clean up the tree - about 2 months ago, I defoliated the tree, took out some of the awkward branches, and partially wired the branches.

I was hoping to get styling advice on how I can restyle the tree and perhaps identify which could be the best front. Any advice is greatly appreciated. Thanks!

Note: I believe the first picture attached is the original front.

I won't comment on styling, but you might have a gold mine with that root-over-rock.

 

[Forsoothe!]

I'll throw this out knowing that there are maybe a million different ways to do anything. So, I'm not saying this is best, just that it's what I'd do. There are some real distinct major lines, I suspect that at one time it was a dramatic set of sweeps. Great sweeps are nice, as long as they all look like they are the product of the same forces. For example, wind blown branches are all affected by a wind from the same direction. There are wind blow designs where every branch is down wind to an extreme as through the winds are hurricane force and there are no other factors. I don't like those. I prefer to see a wind blown tree that is trying to grow in one direction, maybe to the sun, and as the branches became longer they were more and more affected by the winds in the face of the way the tree would grow in less wind. That's the more classic up-wind short side, down-wind long side. That's what I think this tree was a long time ago and it was allowed to grow without ever shortening any branches. So, you have a bunch of very long branches. I would follow the original design and wire the branches that would follow that flow and shorten every branch to fit within the original profile, as far as you can guess. If I'm right and the branches were never shortened, you should be able to extrapolate the original size because un-shortened branches don't subdivide, they just get longer.


It's hard for me to draw lines on your tree that show the fine tips all winding up pointing downwind, as below.

As many smaller as possible side branches radiating from the major branches should also be wired to be "influenced" by the winds in character with the overall plan. Again, just one of a million possibilities.

 

[Shibui]

Best front is usually a compromise that shows of the best aspects of nebari (visible surface roots), trunk, branches, features and minimizes any visible faults. sometimes you need to accept a lesser view of one or more of those aspects to maximize another.
As this is a root over rock tree the view of root and rock should have precedence over trunk and branches so look for the best view of root and rock first. pic #1 has just 1 root that grows down then back up the rock so best to avoid that angle if possible because I don't find that either natural or attractive.
in pic 2 the roots are tangled with no clear lines. For me pic 3 and 4 have the best root lines and rock shape. That's not really saying much as the roots on this tree do not look like they grew there naturally. The gaps between rock and roots are distracting. Time can heal many things so maybe it will improve.
Trunks look best when they initially lean away from the viewer low down but comes back toward the front nearer to the top.
There are many options for branches and branches are relatively easy to manipulate by pruning or wiring and bending. i can't make much out of the mass of branches currently on the tree but I prefer to have a single unifying theme in a bonsai. This trunk seems to split into 2 competing trunks going in opposite directions. I'm a simple person so prefer to look at something with a simple trunkline rather than being conflicted about which side of the tree to follow so i would either remove one side or drastically shorten one so the tree has a more clearly defined visual flow.
The top of the tree has lots of long branches. that's typical of trees, esp ficus, that have not been pruned often enough. Fortunately figs respond really well to pruning so I'd get rid of the wires on those and cut them right back to within 1" of the main branches. They will respond with lots of new shoots to give you a bushier tree and more options for branching. The current size also makes the trunk look thinner. A smaller trees will help emphasize the trunk an it will look thicker.
View 3 and 4 appear to have the best view of the rock and root but also appear to have a branch coming toward the front and obscuring the view of the trunk line. problem branches can either be moved after wiring or simple pruned either much shorter or taken out completely. there are plenty of branches on this tree so a removing a couple will not compromise the tree and will probably improve the final look.

As always, the owner is the one who needs to live with the result so you'll need to be comfortable with the design you choose. Feel free to accept or ignore any or all of my thoughts.

Note that a location in your profile will allow members to offer advice that better suits your seasons and growing conditions so well worth including a country, state or even city in your personal profile.

 

[walton1993]

I'll throw this out knowing that there are maybe a million different ways to do anything. So, I'm not saying this is best, just that it's what I'd do. There are some real distinct major lines, I suspect that at one time it was a dramatic set of sweeps. Great sweeps are nice, as long as they all look like they are the product of the same forces. For example, wind blown branches are all affected by a wind from the same direction. There are wind blow designs where every branch is down wind to an extreme as through the winds are hurricane force and there are no other factors. I don't like those. I prefer to see a wind blown tree that is trying to grow in one direction, maybe to the sun, and as the branches became longer they were more and more affected by the winds in the face of the way the tree would grow in less wind. That's the more classic up-wind short side, down-wind long side. That's what I think this tree was a long time ago and it was allowed to grow without ever shortening any branches. So, you have a bunch of very long branches. I would follow the original design and wire the branches that would follow that flow and shorten every branch to fit within the original profile, as far as you can guess. If I'm right and the branches were never shortened, you should be able to extrapolate the original size because un-shortened branches don't subdivide, they just get longer.
View attachment 278288
View attachment 278289
It's hard for me to draw lines on your tree that show the fine tips all winding up pointing downwind, as below.
View attachment 278290
As many smaller as possible side branches radiating from the major branches should also be wired to be "influenced" by the winds in character with the overall plan. Again, just one of a million possibilities.

Thanks for your response! Super cool idea for wind swept style. If I’m understanding correctly I think you are suggesting like the attached (windswept with branches pointing towards the sun)

I’ll see how much I can bend the branches for this look though I don’t think this tree has enough ramification yet for proper windswept, but perhaps I can get started on the primary and secondary branches.

if you notice the trunk splits to two primary branch (left and right).Do you think it’s better to keep both or remove one side?

 

[walton1993]

Best front is usually a compromise that shows of the best aspects of nebari (visible surface roots), trunk, branches, features and minimizes any visible faults. sometimes you need to accept a lesser view of one or more of those aspects to maximize another.
As this is a root over rock tree the view of root and rock should have precedence over trunk and branches so look for the best view of root and rock first. pic #1 has just 1 root that grows down then back up the rock so best to avoid that angle if possible because I don't find that either natural or attractive.
in pic 2 the roots are tangled with no clear lines. For me pic 3 and 4 have the best root lines and rock shape. That's not really saying much as the roots on this tree do not look like they grew there naturally. The gaps between rock and roots are distracting. Time can heal many things so maybe it will improve.
Trunks look best when they initially lean away from the viewer low down but comes back toward the front nearer to the top.
There are many options for branches and branches are relatively easy to manipulate by pruning or wiring and bending. i can't make much out of the mass of branches currently on the tree but I prefer to have a single unifying theme in a bonsai. This trunk seems to split into 2 competing trunks going in opposite directions. I'm a simple person so prefer to look at something with a simple trunkline rather than being conflicted about which side of the tree to follow so i would either remove one side or drastically shorten one so the tree has a more clearly defined visual flow.
The top of the tree has lots of long branches. that's typical of trees, esp ficus, that have not been pruned often enough. Fortunately figs respond really well to pruning so I'd get rid of the wires on those and cut them right back to within 1" of the main branches. They will respond with lots of new shoots to give you a bushier tree and more options for branching. The current size also makes the trunk look thinner. A smaller trees will help emphasize the trunk an it will look thicker.
View 3 and 4 appear to have the best view of the rock and root but also appear to have a branch coming toward the front and obscuring the view of the trunk line. problem branches can either be moved after wiring or simple pruned either much shorter or taken out completely. there are plenty of branches on this tree so a removing a couple will not compromise the tree and will probably improve the final look.

As always, the owner is the one who needs to live with the result so you'll need to be comfortable with the design you choose. Feel free to accept or ignore any or all of my thoughts.

Note that a location in your profile will allow members to offer advice that better suits your seasons and growing conditions so well worth including a country, state or even city in your personal profile.

Thanks very much for your comment. I also thought about the competing trunks and removing one of them. If looking at pic 1, I was considering to remove the right side because 1) it bends at a pretty sharp angle and 2) it has deep wire marks.

However, if I go with pic 3 or 4 as the front then the above points wouldn’t be visible anyways. I do like the idea of using pic 3 or 4 (as there are lots of defects in using pic 1 as the front). However, to your point, the nebari isn’t very natural or particularly nice from this angle.

Separately, is it safe to remove one side of the tree completely? Or perhaps I should do it in phases (cutting bit by bit over a period of time).

Thank you again for your input!

 

[Shibui]

This is a ficus. Most species will just laugh at removing half of the branching and grow all the faster for it so no problem removing just one branch.

There's still no indication of your location so it is harder to offer advice on timing without knowing if you are in mild or cooler climate. I assume from the outdoors pics that you are in a warm place but you will get better advice if you update your profile with a location.
Even in pics 3 and 4, I would lean toward removing the same branch trunk. I think the right moving trunk (in those 2 photos ) compliment the shape of the rock but other options are valid and any option will depend on the real shape of the trunk and movement back and forth which can be hard to pick from photos..

 

[walton1993]

Thanks. Yes I’m in a tropical climate with only 2 seasons: dry or rainy season.

Interesting points. Thanks very much for sharing. 3 and 4 as the front while cutting the left side (from this perspective)looks pretty good

 

[Forsoothe!]

This is an embarrassingly too simple layout, but it does show that the over-reaching unbalanced look could be overcome by drastic pruning. The focus should be the rock with the tree being a possession of the rock rather than vice-versa. The long straight root should point straight down. That's the only thing I can think of that is ever OK to have straight in a bonsai, -an aerial root. You probably can't do that in one move, but you may be able to free it from it's entanglements with other roots and begin the process of putting it into a position that looks more natural.

The matting root on the far side of the rock should be moved, too, so the sight line shows less open space between it and the root which would normally have hugged the rock from its birth.

 

[walton1993]

This is an embarrassingly too simple layout, but it does show that the over-reaching unbalanced look could be overcome by drastic pruning. The focus should be the rock with the tree being a possession of the rock rather than vice-versa. The long straight root should point straight down. That's the only thing I can think of that is ever OK to have straight in a bonsai, -an aerial root. You probably can't do that in one move, but you may be able to free it from it's entanglements with other roots and begin the process of putting it into a position that looks more natural.
View attachment 278345
The matting root on the far side of the rock should be moved, too, so the sight line shows less open space between it and the root which would normally have hugged the rock from its birth.

It’s a bit tricky because the branches you drew starts actually from the right side of the main trunk and curls down and to the left (so its approaching the viewer).

One alternative to your idea could be keeping the left side (remove right side branch) and perhaps bringing it downwards. Any thoughts on this?

 

[sorce]

Truth truth.....

Since you CAN cut it all back or off...

Leave it while you work on the roots.

I'm not one to feel regret but let me tell you about how I regret not grafting roots and branches on to my ficus a long time ago..or not, no one wants to hear that shit!

But seriously, take some cuttings and graft some roots on there to remove the loop, and the horizontal looking root sections.

Hedge this for a couple years while grafting roots, and all of a sudden, you'll have a wonderful option singing oh tannenbaum right in your face!

Sorce

 

[Forsoothe!]

Truth truth.....

Since you CAN cut it all back or off...

Leave it while you work on the roots.

I'm not one to feel regret but let me tell you about how I regret not grafting roots and branches on to my ficus a long time ago..or not, no one wants to hear that shit!

But seriously, take some cuttings and graft some roots on there to remove the loop, and the horizontal looking root sections.

Hedge this for a couple years while grafting roots, and all of a sudden, you'll have a wonderful option singing oh tannenbaum right in your face!

Sorce

A Christmas Fig? I've had candied figs for Christmas, maybe you're right! Then, again, you know how I hate to be picky...

 

[sorce]

A Christmas Fig? I've had candied figs for Christmas, maybe you're right! Then, again, you know how I hate to be picky...

More of a German Tree than a Christmas Fig!

But where would that figgy pudding come from anyway?

Sorce

 

[Forsoothe!]

More of a German Tree than a Christmas Fig!

But where would that figgy pudding come from anyway?

Sorce

A Pudding Tree, you idiot.

 

[sorce]

A Pudding Tree, you idiot.

Only @NotSorce gets to speak to me like that!

Sorce

 

[canoeguide]

The focus should be the rock with the tree being a possession of the rock rather than vice-versa.

I've not heard it expressed this way before, but in one clear sentence you've just described precisely why many ROR aren't aesthetically convincing.

 

[Forsoothe!]

It’s a bit tricky because the branches you drew starts actually from the right side of the main trunk and curls down and to the left (so its approaching the viewer).

One alternative to your idea could be keeping the left side (remove right side branch) and perhaps bringing it downwards. Any thoughts on this?

I can't see any the depth of the plant in your photos. Or mine for that matter, the 3rd dimension is lost if you've never seen the tree in the flesh. We're just throwing around concepts to think about. You could take a photo of the plan view (from the top, through). And we could drag this out for days. It IS January...

 

[walton1993]

Maybe this will give a clearer view on the tree .

I haven’t heard the term root grafting yet. Will read up on it.

 

[walton1993]

At this time, I’m leaning towards making this cut (keeping left side). And see how I can develop the left side into a windswept style after more ramification.

 

[Shibui]

The pictures and drawings still don't really show the crucial back and frontwards movement of the trunk and branches so we can't see the depth of the tree in 2D photos. It is really only possible to assess the full 3D effect when seeing it in person or with very good photos from different angles. you are the one who can see that crucial detail so you are the one who must make the final decisions.
Your cut will give a more vertical tree which many people find more attractive option however I don't particularly like the trunk then bending back down. Maybe if you shorten the current main trunk/branch growing left so it becomes less dominant and more of a branch and allow the upright shoot to become the upward growing trunk it will be fine. That way the left leaning rock and roots becomes the first bend in an informal upright design.
Personally, I like the right side better as it continues the left flow of the rock better and gives what could be a far more dynamic style.
As always, your tree and your choice. There may even be reasons that I can't see in the photos that mean the strong leaning right trunk won't work as well as I envisage from the info the photos are able to supply.
There's no 'right' answer to bonsai design, just many options.