Help in diagnosing elm's problem

[jackeill]

Hi,

I have this bonsai for four years now. I keep it indoors, but by a huge eastern window (4.5 meters wide, 2 meters high), 20-25 degrees Celsius. I keep it's soil wet. I spray it with water every day. I feed it with a proper bonsai fertilizer, according to the elm's needs. During the winter (December - February) I keep it in a low-temperature basement (about 5 degrees Celsius, but never 0), when it loses its leaves. By the end of this resting period, my elm awakes by itself with new leaf shoots and then I take it back to my eastern window. Bonsai quickly went full green and during March and April this year it was beautiful as never:



I have replanted the elm in early March to a bigger pot and a special mix of soil prepared especially for elms. It grew perfectly. In May, however, leaves started to go yellow and new offshoots (while still growing rapidly) started getting curled, brown and eventually dead:







I did spray the elm two times with synthetic anti-pest. I thought that I burned the shoots, but ones which hadn't existed at all back then are dying now, and it was like 2-3 weeks ago. Bonsai was "washed' with water many times since then. I occasionally see a sciaridaes flying around (I see like one-two a week and I kill them), but I heard that small amount of them is not dangerous. So, any chances someone knows what happens to my elm? It looks like it is dying now, despite it is full spring here.

 

[Arizona bonsai]

I think I read here that Elms don’t like to have there “feet” wet.

You said you keep its soil wet.

 

[MrWunderful]

Woody temperate trees are not healthy indoors, if you keep it “alive”. Giving it fertlizer and spraying it with chemicals just makes it worse. Leave it outside in morning sun for starters, and make sure the top 1/2” of soil is drying out between watering.

its not always a disease or pest, probably weak from being inside.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

You have kept this elm alive, indoors 100% of the time, for four years. Congratulations !!! This is not an easy feat to do. It means you do understand indoor horticulture.

The only thing I can suggest, do you have a fan running in the growing area? I keep fans on in my under lights set up running 24/7. The air needs to be moving, but it doesn't have to be a hurricane. A gentle breeze that would be enough to have blades of a fine grass waving gently in the breeze is the perfect amount of air movement. With good air movement you get healthier roots, as air mixes down into the potting mix better, you have fewer insects and fewer issues with fungal and bacterial problems. A cheap 7 or 9 inch diameter fan set a few feet from the tree, blowing in the general direction will greatly improve health. It is important to leave fans on 24 hours a day, not just in daylight.

If you already have a fan, sorry for being redundant. But air movement is definitely an important issue for under lights and windowsill growing.

 

[jackeill]

Thanks guys for your input. I think that the watering is fine anyways. It is never too wet I guess and I never let it dry completely.

The only thing I can suggest, do you have a fan running in the growing area?

I do not have a fan, but it really seems like a good idea. I do open the window quite often anyways, so the humidity can get little bit higher. I will think about the fan, thanks!

 

[fredman]

I agree...spoil it with some sun man

 

[AJL]

Hi,

I have this bonsai for four years now. I keep it indoors, but by a huge eastern window (4.5 meters wide, 2 meters high), 20-25 degrees Celsius. I keep it's soil wet. I spray it with water every day. I feed it with a proper bonsai fertilizer, according to the elm's needs. During the winter (December - February) I keep it in a low-temperature basement (about 5 degrees Celsius, but never 0), when it loses its leaves. By the end of this resting period, my elm awakes by itself with new leaf shoots and then I take it back to my eastern window. Bonsai quickly went full green and during March and April this year it was beautiful as never:

View attachment 305987

I have replanted the elm in early March to a bigger pot and a special mix of soil prepared especially for elms. It grew perfectly. In May, however, leaves started to go yellow and new offshoots (while still growing rapidly) started getting curled, brown and eventually dead:

View attachment 305992

View attachment 305991

View attachment 305990

I did spray the elm two times with synthetic anti-pest. I thought that I burned the shoots, but ones which hadn't existed at all back then are dying now, and it was like 2-3 weeks ago. Bonsai was "washed' with water many times since then. I occasionally see a sciaridaes flying around (I see like one-two a week and I kill them), but I heard that small amount of them is not dangerous. So, any chances someone knows what happens to my elm? It looks like it is dying now, despite it is full spring here.

It may seem a stupid question but does your new pot have a drainage hole in the base? Also did you bare- root the tree when you repotted it this spring

 

[sorce]

Reckon the roots are just trying to catch up.

Did you reduce the number of popping buds in the spring?

This would have been a good time to equally reduce the top and bottom.

Or better, reduce the top even moreso, because if it can handle more folaige, it will backbud, or just grow strong.

Leaving the amounts of buds higher, means IT decides what to kill off.

Keep in control.

Sorce

 

[AaronThomas]

Nice little tree...
As the above stated. Put it outside... it will be fine with appropriate waterings.
Elms don't survive inside. Amazed it has survived this long.

 

[jackeill]

It may seem a stupid question but does your new pot have a drainage hole in the base? Also did you bare- root the tree when you repotted it this spring

Yes, there is drainage, two holes. While repotting I've removed as much of old soil as I could and I cut the roots about 1/2 of the volume. Now it is perfectly rooted in new pot - roots fill it all again.

Did you reduce the number of popping buds in the spring?

In March and Aprli the growth was so intensive I had to reduce new shoots every few days not to change this little guy into something resembling Edward Scissorhands' hairdo. Now (end of May) the growth is like 1/2 of what it was before and new leaves even start with red color (because of the amount of the light they are getting). However, they curl up, brown and die.

As the above stated. Put it outside... it will be fine with appropriate waterings.
Elms don't survive inside. Amazed it has survived this long.

Yes that's what I hear, however quite often I meet people who grow them indoors for years. I thought it has quite good conditions at my window - a lot of light, some breeze (window often gets open) and it is sprayed with water every day to keep the humidity higher. What else is it missing comparing to the outside? I have always wanted this tree to be a decoration item in my room rather than outside. And what makes me wonder - during the springtime, it grew lots of healthy leaves and thick stems - all the time being inside and with even less light. I live in EU, around half the way from Berlin to Prague, so in March there is still quite little light and the sun is quite low. Now it is quite the opposite, the sun rises around 4:30 in the morning and sets at 9pm. So my elm gets around 5 hours of direct morning sun and then for the rest of the day a lot of dispersed light (as I said, the window is big).

But what can I do? Better to keep it alive than let it die inside. I just thought that maybe there are some ideas how to successfully keep it inside. I would agree that it could start to die during fall or winter, when it is weak, but now? These are the best days. Maybe keep it outside for a few weeks so it "gathers" more energy and then put it inside again? What do you think?

 

[sorce]

You have been successfully keeping it inside!

In order to understand why it couldn't keep up this year, you just need understand this ... mathematical tree problem.

So, you didn't reduce the number of buds popping in spring.
You cut those buds after they branched, causing more tips to grow, making it harder for the roots to catch up.

Reducing the number of buds popping in spring, by removing half or more of them, before they become branches, allows the tree time to realize how many roots it has, and it won't grow more than it can support.

You tapped into it's internal reservoirs, which tapped it out.

Cutting buds off before they branch, conserves those internal reservoirs, for the tree to decide how to use them.

Sorce

 

[AaronThomas]

Maybe keep it outside for a few weeks so it "gathers" more energy and then put it inside again? What do you think?

Moving the tree from an outside to an inside environment repeatedly will stress the tree. Though you have a great window with lots of light... glass filters or absorbs all the UVB rays and 70% to 80% of the UVA light which the tree needs truly thrive. I think if you had a side by side comparison of what the tree would have looked like if it were outside compared to what you have now, you would be very surprised in the difference in the growth of the tree.

I think 5 hours of direct sun rather than filtered sun is much better while it's available.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

IF it was easy for you to grow this elm outdoors, I would grow it outdoors. However, you have a 4 year track record showing you can indeed grow it indoors. This means your indoor growing conditions are pretty good. If you add the fan, it will be even better. I would not let the "grow it outdoors" camp sway your desire to grow it indoors. In truth, you need more bonsai. Pick up another elm, to have as your outdoor elm. THen you can see the difference.

Many apartment dwellers can not grow outdoors, period. Just not possible. You could be a mentor to those, as you have worked out the majority of the problems.

 

[jackeill]

So, you didn't reduce the number of buds popping in spring.
You cut those buds after they branched, causing more tips to grow, making it harder for the roots to catch up.

I think that I cut off like 75% of new growth in March and April. Did I do it wrong?

Many apartment dwellers can not grow outdoors, period. Just not possible. You could be a mentor to those, as you have worked out the majority of the problems.

Yes, I basically do not have any possibility to grow it outside for a longer period.

What I did now, I put it just by an always-open window, so it is exposed to outside light, wind and humidity. I close the window only when it rains or gets really cold. Let's see what happens. That's the best I can do.

 

[sorce]

So, you didn't reduce the number of buds popping in spring.
You cut those buds after they branched, causing more tips to grow, making it harder for the roots to catch up.

Reducing the number of buds popping in spring, by removing half or more of them, before they become branches, allows the tree time to realize how many roots it has, and it won't grow more than it can support.

It is important to remember there is a 2 way street between the roots and the leaves.

The idea of working "with" a tree is as simple as knowing why it grows when it does. In spring, it grows to repair winter damage, and in fall, it grows to repair summer damage.

Rarely do the roots get disturbed in nature. So we must consider them, and consider them where traffic begins, regardless of biological truth, since we are going against biology to create these small trees, we must know this, and both honor it and disregard it. Balance.

This illustration is what you did, on the left.
And what is safe, on the right.

Indoors, you're not allowed mistakes.

Sorce

 

[ConorDash]

Also may be worth mentioning.. is it getting the cold and warm cycle necessary for dormancy?
It needs to have that period of time where it sleeps, as it would in winter if outside.

I've heard that trees can be kept indoors and worked, without that dormancy period for 4 years in total. Then, whether anyone likes it or not, no matter the weather, it will go to sleep.
Yours is far from that but worth mentioning for future maybe.

I think its a watering issue, personally. I think too much water. Under watering will have different affects and show fairly quickly. Over watering shows problems after a few months.