Help me clarify the graft point on a ginseng ficus.

[August]

Hey again,

I got this ficus in late spring from a person who I dogsit for, in their own words, they "needed less things to worry about keeping alive", a sentiment I completely understand.

Needless to say, it was in pretty rough shape, hadn't seen more than an hour of sunlight in years, and had a ton of suckers. In my initial cutback I cut it back to three branches that I was pretty sure we're above the graft.

Recently pruned and wired (please excuse the insane wire gauge and withhold from goofing me) and as the new leaves have filled in, I think I might have misjudged how much of the graft has survived.

First picture is the honorary "front", on the left you can really see the smaller leaves and what I (almost) certainly believe to be part of the graft.

Below, a better view of that one branch:



The branches on the back are right on the line of where the obvious (clunky) graft was done.


You can really see how big those leaves are in that picture.

Am I wasting my time with those branches? I have considered the possibility of just continuing with that left branch, in fact I might even appreciate it more that way.

Another question comes to mind now, since this tree is still in such an early stage. If those back branches are below the graft as I fear, would it be better to keep them to promote energy and health as I develop the top, or would the energy being used to support them be better off sent to the graft?

If you made it this far, thanks for reading this absolute manuscript.

 

[Potawatomi13]

So what! Grow bigger tree. Nice base.

 

[Shibui]

A bit hard to compare leaf size in those photos but if you do have smaller graft leaves and larger rootstock leaves the tree will always look odd with the different leaves on different parts. I'd go with one or the other. It can also be harder to manage as the understock usually grows way faster than the grafted part.
Don't worry too much about large leaves on ficus. Leaf size reduces dramatically as the trees develop more ramification. If you think the lower branch would be better go for it. You could try striking the other branch as a cutting. Ficus grow roots very, very easy.

 

[Maiden69]

That ficus don't look like a "ginseng" ficus at all. The bark on the root stock look similar to tiger bark, I can't tell the graft, as it is very rough... Do yourself a favor and repot that tree in a shallower longer pot to allow the roots to spread and reduce the slight reverse taper you have now at the base.

As far as the graft, let it run for a while if you plan on keeping them. Allow them to strengthen the tree before starting to cut back. Definitely a candidate for a ground layer if you want to keep it small. If you have an atomizer, mist with water the trunk to encourage it to bud, let some extend to see how the leaves look like. Normal ginseng roots are smoother with longitudinal fissures, this one have the perpendicular lines and dots that tiger bark have.

"Younger" tiger bark


Same tree "older" bark

 

[leatherback]

but if you do have smaller graft leaves and larger rootstock leaves the tree will always look odd with the different leaves on different parts. I'd go with one or the other.

Agreed,

Maybe as help to the OP: Comparison I did in a video. Should start are the right spot (But.. it is a GREAT video, so feel free to watch the whole thing!)

 

[August]

That ficus don't look like a "ginseng" ficus at all. The bark on the root stock look similar to tiger bark, I can't tell the graft, as it is very rough... Do yourself a favor and repot that tree in a shallower longer pot to allow the roots to spread and reduce the slight reverse taper you have now at the base.

And here is my problem with common names; both F. retusa and F. microcarpa have been called "ginseng" ficus. I truly have no idea what the tree is biologically, but when I got it, it had that ugly 'ginseng' swollen rootstock. Cut that straight off and kept one of the "legs" for the trunk... My plan with most of my 'ginsengs'.

As for the pot, it's actually in the taller pot to encourage higher roots so that I can make some further chops next summer. That trunk is actually almost fully submerged in the pot, you can see how my work is cut out for me there. The plan is to bring it into a shallower, more 'suitable' vessel when feasible

 

[August]

A bit hard to compare leaf size in those photos but if you do have smaller graft leaves and larger rootstock leaves the tree will always look odd with the different leaves on different parts. I'd go with one or the other. It can also be harder to manage as the understock usually grows way faster than the grafted part.
Don't worry too much about large leaves on ficus. Leaf size reduces dramatically as the trees develop more ramification. If you think the lower branch would be better go for it. You could try striking the other branch as a cutting. Ficus grow roots very, very easy.

If it helps at all, the topmost leaves on the right are just as fresh as the tiny glossy ones on the left; budded out at the same time, have grown for the same time. I'm used to getting tiny, stunted leaves from hard cuts, so that's what I assumed was happening, until they hardened off; now they appear to be significantly smaller by genetics.

 

[Maiden69]

As for the pot, it's actually in the taller pot to encourage higher roots so that I can make some further chops next summer. That trunk is actually almost fully submerged in the pot, you can see how my work is cut out for me there. The plan is to bring it into a shallower, more 'suitable' vessel when feasible

You would achieve this faster with a ground layer. If you just cover the trunk with soil you will get roots out of different places, and probably not enough close to the place you want to cut the trunk at.

 

[August]

You would achieve this faster with a ground layer. If you just cover the trunk with soil you will get roots out of different places, and probably not enough close to the place you want to cut the trunk at.

Understood. By "ground layer" you mean "air-layering" right around the base correct? Would a bundle of sphagnum inside of foil be the way to do this? Would be pretty easy for me to set it up that way. Just looking for clarification!

 

[August]

Understood. By "ground layer" you mean "air-layering" right around the base correct? Would a bundle of sphagnum inside of foil be the way to do this? Would be pretty easy for me to set it up that way. Just looking for clarification!

This is sort of what I'm imagining here, black for the outline of the foil and yellow for the sphagnum.

 

[Maiden69]

Understood. By "ground layer" you mean "air-layering" right around the base correct? Would a bundle of sphagnum inside of foil be the way to do this? Would be pretty easy for me to set it up that way. Just looking for clarification!

Yes, and yes, I don't use foil, I use a plastic bag as David uses on this video. Its in Spanish, but you can understand what he is doing just watching it.

While contrary to what everyone here will tell you to do, I keep my ficus that I want to thicken with the pot 1/2 immerse in water while actively growing. That way I get a lot of aerial roots close to the base that will be used to thicken that area faster. The two trees in the white baskets where trunks chopped to about 1" tall and almost all the roots cut away before planting. This is their first year in development. I will be repotting in spring as soon as we get some 70 degree weather into a wider Rootpouch or basket.

Ficus Tiger Bark progression

I think I am finally going to start making threads of my trees to keep up with the progression as I rather enjoy reading the progression threads posted here by many members. I bought this ficus last July last summer discounted at Lowes. Going to try to dig up some pictures but the tree was not...

www.bonsainut.com

 

[August]

While contrary to what everyone here will tell you to do, I keep my ficus that I want to thicken with the pot 1/2 immerse in water while actively growing. That way I get a lot of aerial roots close to the base that will be used to thicken that area faster.

A lot of plant enthusiasts would gawf at a potted plant submerged in standing water (at least the houseplant community finally understands the importance of drainage holes). I see what you're going for with that. I live in a very dry climate and made the mistake of mixing a very turfacey soil for my last round of repotting. The pots dry out very fast and I have on occasion let a bit of water stand in the saucer so I can lower my guard. I think I would be comfortable letting them sit in a deeper basin... If you live in a humid part of Texas and have never had rotting issues with this technique, I trust you. Important to note that this particular tree lives in a humidity dome where it is regularly around 87%. Still the soil dries very fast.

 

[Maiden69]

@Arbormancy Amatuer the big ficus is in bonsai block/monto clay 50/50. Monto Clay is turface, just properly sized for bonsai and with a rounder profile. Both are from Bonsai Jack. I haven't had an issue with it drying, it is in a Rootpouch, but during the summer, and to make it easier to handle, I placed it inside a 3 gal container, encased in perlite. This ensures that the outside will not dry as fast as the bag alone in our 100 degree and windy Texas weather. The tree grows faster with the container slightly submerged in water though. The nebari on that tree is about 1.5" below the soil surface, hopefully there will be plenty of extra roots when I repot this season that will widen the base considerably.

 

[luvinthemountains]

You mention sprouting after a hard cutback. Did these branches sprout from a bare trunk? I would be pretty surprised because both have what appear to me to be pretty obvious graft scars. When people talk about "grafted ginseng ficus" they are generally not referring to a trunk grafted on root stock as you might expect. The branches themselves are grafted onto the trunk. This leaves you with the choice to (1) keep the grafts (assuming they are genetically identical) and scrape off any trunk sprouts, or (2) cut the grafts off entirely and develop your tree from the trunk sprouts that result. The latter option should ideally be done in June/July. I have done both and either choice is perfectly acceptable. Just keep in mind that the leaves that sprout from the trunk are likely to be much larger than those from the grafts. The graft stock/scions are usually a dwarf variety, in my experience.

 

[Carol 83]

That ficus don't look like a "ginseng" ficus at all. The bark on the root stock look similar to tiger bark, I can't

I thought so too. I wouldn't have a Ginseng to compare it to but my brother gave me one and he asks to see it every Christmas. So I have to keep it alive.

 

[Crazy Diamond]

And here is my problem with common names; both F. retusa and F. microcarpa have been called "ginseng" ficus. I truly have no idea what the tree is biologically, but when I got it, it had that ugly 'ginseng' swollen rootstock. Cut that straight off and kept one of the "legs" for the trunk... My plan with most of my 'ginsengs'.

As for the pot, it's actually in the taller pot to encourage higher roots so that I can make some further chops next summer. That trunk is actually almost fully submerged in the pot, you can see how my work is cut out for me there. The plan is to bring it into a shallower, more 'suitable' vessel when feasible

"Ginseng" Ficus dont exist, the tubers are just plain Ficus microcarpa roots and the graft is Ficus microcarpa "compacta" that have smaller leaves, anything that sprouts bellow those branches it will be big leaf microcarpa

 

[August]

"Ginseng" Ficus dont exist, the tubers are just plain Ficus microcarpa roots and the graft is Ficus microcarpa "compacta" that have smaller leaves, anything that sprouts bellow those branches it will be big leaf microcarpa

Hate to be this person but "ginseng" ficus does exist, it's both a common name (meaningless and vague sure, but calling an Acer rubrum a Red Maple doesn't hurt anybody) as well as a particular named style of mass produced, grafted ficus. I said ginseng because I thought most people would know what I meant, and because the question is about the "ginseng" style graft, e.g. big leaf ficus with banyan-esque roots below and a smaller leafed variety above

 

[Crazy Diamond]

I mean yes if you call them that as a style and not as cultivar o different species, I hate them to be honest, so many people think bonsais are supose to look like that because of them xD