Help me with a 7 year plan for a bonsai rookie

[Cajunrider]

Greetings to all.

Here is my situation:
At one time I had a long time plan for a place where I would retire in Louisiana. I planted many trees, palms, etc.. on my 6 acre of land house lot. 3 hurricanes later my land still just have a few baby trees, nothing of any consequential size. The current plan is now to move to Pennsylvania 8-9 years from now when I retire. My love for trees now has morphed from majestic wide open space trees to bonsai.

After spending several months to deliberate on the idea and trying a few things, I am now fully on board. My goal now is to develop about 5-7 bonsai trees that are compatible with current zone 9A and future zone 7A. So far I have the current candidates in mind:
1. Japanese maple. I currently have 3 saplings (1/2" diameter at base 2ft tall) and two air layers (3.5" and 2.5") going at my sister's house. The air layers should be ready by Thanksgiving. The problem will be transporting them from Ohio to Louisiana. Is it OK to do the trunk chop and just plant the branch with developed roots in late November in zone 9a and be ready for the spring growth? What should I do with this effort?
2. Bald cypress: I currently have a 9ft tall BC (2" diameter at base) in a big plastic tub. Should I trunk chop this coming spring or should I develop the trunk some more? The alternative to this would be buying a bigger tree but that can be budget busting for me. My goal is a smallish flat top BC bonsai about 36" tall.
3. Spondias Dulcis (June plum)
4. Ochna Integerrima/Serrulata(2 separate species that I plan to graft into one bonsai). For 3 & 4 I grew up in Asia where bonsai for these two are very popular. Right now I have them around 1" diameter. I am not sure of the progression for how to develop them into a bonsai yet.
5. Pomegranate. My uncle gave me one of them in a pot. The plant sprouted up multiple trunks (7 so far). I am attempting to fuse several of them together to get a bigger trunk. To get good taper, I release them out of the fusing bundle at different height. Once the fuse is completed, I plan to cut back the branches a lot to keep them in the right proportion. Is this plan OK?
6. Others: I also have a crepe myrtle, a bougainvillea, and a Japanese tulip magnolia in pots. I'm not sure about turning them into bonsai yet. Your thoughts?

Feel free to give me any advice on any item. Of particular interest to me is the schedule for zone 9A on when to do things with each of these items, the tools I should get etc.. Like all other endeavors I've had in life, I've spent a fair amount of time to research on the subject of bonsai. It's the practical advice that I sorely need. I know I can keep most things alive in pots. Going from there to bonsai is a long journey and at my age, I don't have much time so any short cut is very much appreciated.

 

[Cajunrider]

1. JM air layer

 

[Cajunrider]

2. BC

 

[Cajunrider]

3. Spondias dulcis

 

[Cajunrider]

4. Ochna serrulata

 

[Cajunrider]

5. Pomegranate

 

[GGB]

I love bald cypress. You'll have a smaller window of growth up here in PA but they are still fun and really hardy. Not in a position to give advice on BC as I've only been growing em 2 years but I wouldn't ever be in a rush to chop one. Around 4" and they'll start to buttress

And as a side note... and hoping to god this doesn't cause anyone to lose their mind....

Most of PA falls somewhere around zone 6 some 5, and a tiny piece of 7 near Philly. My city used to be zone 6a, now I'm 6b. WOOHOO global warming! In about 10 years my city is supposed to be 7a and 21 years we'll be 7b. It's pretty neat to think about. We'll see in time how accurate those predictions are.

Anyway, PA is legit and if it keeps getting warmer it'll only get nicer..maybe. Soild plan.

I orginally was growing southern trees because I wanted to move South but then I realized how warm it's supposed to be here in my friendly home state so I think I'm just gonna stay

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Greetings to all.

Here is my situation:
At one time I had a long time plan for a place where I would retire in Louisiana. I planted many trees, palms, etc.. on my 6 acre of land house lot. 3 hurricanes later my land still just have a few baby trees, nothing of any consequential size. The current plan is now to move to Pennsylvania 8-9 years from now when I retire. My love for trees now has morphed from majestic wide open space trees to bonsai.

After spending several months to deliberate on the idea and trying a few things, I am now fully on board. My goal now is to develop about 5-7 bonsai trees that are compatible with current zone 9A and future zone 7A. So far I have the current candidates in mind:
1. Japanese maple. I currently have 3 saplings (1/2" diameter at base 2ft tall) and two air layers (3.5" and 2.5") going at my sister's house. The air layers should be ready by Thanksgiving. The problem will be transporting them from Ohio to Louisiana. Is it OK to do the trunk chop and just plant the branch with developed roots in late November in zone 9a and be ready for the spring growth? What should I do with this effort?
2. Bald cypress: I currently have a 9ft tall BC (2" diameter at base) in a big plastic tub. Should I trunk chop this coming spring or should I develop the trunk some more? The alternative to this would be buying a bigger tree but that can be budget busting for me. My goal is a smallish flat top BC bonsai about 36" tall.
3. Spondias Dulcis (June plum)
4. Ochna Integerrima/Serrulata(2 separate species that I plan to graft into one bonsai). For 3 & 4 I grew up in Asia where bonsai for these two are very popular. Right now I have them around 1" diameter. I am not sure of the progression for how to develop them into a bonsai yet.
5. Pomegranate. My uncle gave me one of them in a pot. The plant sprouted up multiple trunks (7 so far). I am attempting to fuse several of them together to get a bigger trunk. To get good taper, I release them out of the fusing bundle at different height. Once the fuse is completed, I plan to cut back the branches a lot to keep them in the right proportion. Is this plan OK?
6. Others: I also have a crepe myrtle, a bougainvillea, and a Japanese tulip magnolia in pots. I'm not sure about turning them into bonsai yet. Your thoughts?

Feel free to give me any advice on any item. Of particular interest to me is the schedule for zone 9A on when to do things with each of these items, the tools I should get etc.. Like all other endeavors I've had in life, I've spent a fair amount of time to research on the subject of bonsai. It's the practical advice that I sorely need. I know I can keep most things alive in pots. Going from there to bonsai is a long journey and at my age, I don't have much time so any short cut is very much appreciated.

1. Japanese maple - yes, remove air layers (only if roots are developed) and plant them in zone 9. Zone 9 is mild enough that autumn repotting is not that bad. Unwrap and check for roots, if not enough have formed re-wrap and wait until spring. The roots will be fine over winter even in Ohio.

2, How large a diameter do you want? Let the tree get tall enough to give you that size, only then do you do the chop. Well actually let the trunk get to 75% to 90 % of your desired diameter, then chop. It will gain some diameter as you develop the next several sections of trunk. So if you want a 4 inch diameter trunk, wait with the chop until you are over 3 inches diameter.

3 - I have never seen Spondias used as bonsai, looks quite do-able. Does it have a deciduous period every year? I know growth rate can be very rapid for this species, that may cause trouble with trying to keep it under control. If continuously having fruit is a goal, training for bonsai may require pruning away branches might remove future flower buds and result in less fruit. See comments about thickening trunk to desired diameter. Trunks thicken based on the amount of foliage they support, not just height, so lots of branches could force the increase in diameter you will need with the Spondias. Probably will have to be wintered indoors, Pennsylvania is too cold in winter.

4. - Ochna, I love this one, and it makes exquisite bonsai. (my experience is from seeing photos on internet and visiting Mai Vang nursery in Sarasota. O. integerrima is famous for being slow to develop a thick trunk. A worthy project, but Pennsylvania might be too cold for Ochna in winter. You'll have to winter it indoors.

5. - I suppose your plan could work. Pomegranate are vigorous enough you could put one in the ground in Louisiana and have a large trunk in the 7 years you are talking about, no fusion necessary. Or, pot the bundle to be fused into the ground to get better, wild growth. It is the amount of growth that increases the trunk diameters that causes the fusion. Get the pomegranates growing quickly.

6. Crepe myrtle makes excellent bonsai, and may be hardy in the warmer parts of Pennsylvania. Bougainvillea make good bonsai but will have to be protected in a Pennsylvania winter. Japanese tulip magnolia - is this the Liriodendron chinense? It might be hardy in Pennsylvania, might not. The Liriodendron are not known to make very satisfactory bonsai. If it is hardy in Penn, maybe plan on using it as a landscape tree. If you mean a different member of the Magnolia genus, the same issues apply to both Magnolia and Liriodendron. They are awkward as bonsai at best. The branch structure is very coarse, with very little secondary branching. Leaves will remain too large. They are best used as a display in flower and hide the rest of the year. However, a number of us love the flowers and we have our trees we are working on. So far my Magnolia virginiana is proving to be just as bad for bonsai as the other magnolias. But who knows. Time will tell.

So all in all you have a good plan.

 

[Cajunrider]

1. Japanese maple - yes, remove air layers (only if roots are developed) and plant them in zone 9. Zone 9 is mild enough that autumn repotting is not that bad. Unwrap and check for roots, if not enough have formed re-wrap and wait until spring. The roots will be fine over winter even in Ohio.

2, How large a diameter do you want? Let the tree get tall enough to give you that size, only then do you do the chop. Well actually let the trunk get to 75% to 90 % of your desired diameter, then chop. It will gain some diameter as you develop the next several sections of trunk. So if you want a 4 inch diameter trunk, wait with the chop until you are over 3 inches diameter.

3 - I have never seen Spondias used as bonsai, looks quite do-able. Does it have a deciduous period every year? I know growth rate can be very rapid for this species, that may cause trouble with trying to keep it under control. If continuously having fruit is a goal, training for bonsai may require pruning away branches might remove future flower buds and result in less fruit. See comments about thickening trunk to desired diameter. Trunks thicken based on the amount of foliage they support, not just height, so lots of branches could force the increase in diameter you will need with the Spondias. Probably will have to be wintered indoors, Pennsylvania is too cold in winter.

4. - Ochna, I love this one, and it makes exquisite bonsai. (my experience is from seeing photos on internet and visiting Mai Vang nursery in Sarasota. O. integerrima is famous for being slow to develop a thick trunk. A worthy project, but Pennsylvania might be too cold for Ochna in winter. You'll have to winter it indoors.

5. - I suppose your plan could work. Pomegranate are vigorous enough you could put one in the ground in Louisiana and have a large trunk in the 7 years you are talking about, no fusion necessary. Or, pot the bundle to be fused into the ground to get better, wild growth. It is the amount of growth that increases the trunk diameters that causes the fusion. Get the pomegranates growing quickly.

6. Crepe myrtle makes excellent bonsai, and may be hardy in the warmer parts of Pennsylvania. Bougainvillea make good bonsai but will have to be protected in a Pennsylvania winter. Japanese tulip magnolia - is this the Liriodendron chinense? It might be hardy in Pennsylvania, might not. The Liriodendron are not known to make very satisfactory bonsai. If it is hardy in Penn, maybe plan on using it as a landscape tree. If you mean a different member of the Magnolia genus, the same issues apply to both Magnolia and Liriodendron. They are awkward as bonsai at best. The branch structure is very coarse, with very little secondary branching. Leaves will remain too large. They are best used as a display in flower and hide the rest of the year. However, a number of us love the flowers and we have our trees we are working on. So far my Magnolia virginiana is proving to be just as bad for bonsai as the other magnolias. But who knows. Time will tell.

So all in all you have a good plan.

Thank you for a very detailed response. That really helps.

 

[Cajunrider]

1. Japanese maple - yes, remove air layers (only if roots are developed) and plant them in zone 9. Zone 9 is mild enough that autumn repotting is not that bad. Unwrap and check for roots, if not enough have formed re-wrap and wait until spring. The roots will be fine over winter even in Ohio.

2, How large a diameter do you want? Let the tree get tall enough to give you that size, only then do you do the chop. Well actually let the trunk get to 75% to 90 % of your desired diameter, then chop. It will gain some diameter as you develop the next several sections of trunk. So if you want a 4 inch diameter trunk, wait with the chop until you are over 3 inches diameter.

3 - I have never seen Spondias used as bonsai, looks quite do-able. Does it have a deciduous period every year? I know growth rate can be very rapid for this species, that may cause trouble with trying to keep it under control. If continuously having fruit is a goal, training for bonsai may require pruning away branches might remove future flower buds and result in less fruit. See comments about thickening trunk to desired diameter. Trunks thicken based on the amount of foliage they support, not just height, so lots of branches could force the increase in diameter you will need with the Spondias. Probably will have to be wintered indoors, Pennsylvania is too cold in winter.

4. - Ochna, I love this one, and it makes exquisite bonsai. (my experience is from seeing photos on internet and visiting Mai Vang nursery in Sarasota. O. integerrima is famous for being slow to develop a thick trunk. A worthy project, but Pennsylvania might be too cold for Ochna in winter. You'll have to winter it indoors.

5. - I suppose your plan could work. Pomegranate are vigorous enough you could put one in the ground in Louisiana and have a large trunk in the 7 years you are talking about, no fusion necessary. Or, pot the bundle to be fused into the ground to get better, wild growth. It is the amount of growth that increases the trunk diameters that causes the fusion. Get the pomegranates growing quickly.

6. Crepe myrtle makes excellent bonsai, and may be hardy in the warmer parts of Pennsylvania. Bougainvillea make good bonsai but will have to be protected in a Pennsylvania winter. Japanese tulip magnolia - is this the Liriodendron chinense? It might be hardy in Pennsylvania, might not. The Liriodendron are not known to make very satisfactory bonsai. If it is hardy in Penn, maybe plan on using it as a landscape tree. If you mean a different member of the Magnolia genus, the same issues apply to both Magnolia and Liriodendron. They are awkward as bonsai at best. The branch structure is very coarse, with very little secondary branching. Leaves will remain too large. They are best used as a display in flower and hide the rest of the year. However, a number of us love the flowers and we have our trees we are working on. So far my Magnolia virginiana is proving to be just as bad for bonsai as the other magnolias. But who knows. Time will tell.

So all in all you have a good plan.

Again thank you. Here are some of my thoughts with your post.
For the BC, I'm thinking about chopping the trunk in the spring. By that time it will be just around 2 inches but my goal for this one is a really small BC due to space limitation. The end height for this should be under 24". I'm looking for harvesting a 6" trunk with knee(s) in the swamp sometime this winter for a big one.
Spondias for bonsai is very popular in SE Asia. A good bonsai spondias is often sold at thousands of US dollars. People often develop it into crazy looking trunk. As a matter of fact the crazier the better. The hard part is bending of the trunk because it is very tender when young and brittle when old.
For the Ochna, right now I have the serrulata I plan to buy an integerrima in the spring and cross graft the two species. I've seen one with both and it was very interesting. Plus this way I get to practice grafting. I have friends who were able to keep ochna in the DC and Philadelphia areas so I think it is doable with a sun room.
The pomegranate I have is in a big 20" pot. It is growing like crazy. The trunk fusing is well on its way. I already have adhesion in 2 or 3 places. I also put an air layer on a big branch. When the fuse is completed I'll cut that branch off and plant it.

 

[JudyB]

Will you be able to achieve dormancy for your JM in your zone overwinter? And depending on where in Ohio your airlayer is, it may not make it thru winter if it’s not ready. Some of our areas here experience harsh winters.

 

[Cajunrider]

Will you be able to achieve dormancy for your JM in your zone overwinter? And depending on where in Ohio your airlayer is, it may not make it thru winter if it’s not ready. Some of our areas here experience harsh winters.

I think I will be able to get enough dormancy since I'm in 9A and not 9B. I'm planning to travel up to Ohio for Thanksgiving and collect my air layers. By then the air layer will be 105 days old so they should be ready. In the event they are not ready, I will wrap them in bubble wraps and collect them in the spring.

 

[Cajunrider]

Greetings to all.

Here is my situation:
At one time I had a long time plan for a place where I would retire in Louisiana. I planted many trees, palms, etc.. on my 6 acre of land house lot. 3 hurricanes later my land still just have a few baby trees, nothing of any consequential size. The current plan is now to move to Pennsylvania 8-9 years from now when I retire. My love for trees now has morphed from majestic wide open space trees to bonsai.

After spending several months to deliberate on the idea and trying a few things, I am now fully on board. My goal now is to develop about 5-7 bonsai trees that are compatible with current zone 9A and future zone 7A. So far I have the current candidates in mind:
1. Japanese maple. I currently have 3 saplings (1/2" diameter at base 2ft tall) and two air layers (3.5" and 2.5") going at my sister's house. The air layers should be ready by Thanksgiving. The problem will be transporting them from Ohio to Louisiana. Is it OK to do the trunk chop and just plant the branch with developed roots in late November in zone 9a and be ready for the spring growth? What should I do with this effort?
2. Bald cypress: I currently have a 9ft tall BC (2" diameter at base) in a big plastic tub. Should I trunk chop this coming spring or should I develop the trunk some more? The alternative to this would be buying a bigger tree but that can be budget busting for me. My goal is a smallish flat top BC bonsai about 36" tall.
3. Spondias Dulcis (June plum)
4. Ochna Integerrima/Serrulata(2 separate species that I plan to graft into one bonsai). For 3 & 4 I grew up in Asia where bonsai for these two are very popular. Right now I have them around 1" diameter. I am not sure of the progression for how to develop them into a bonsai yet.
5. Pomegranate. My uncle gave me one of them in a pot. The plant sprouted up multiple trunks (7 so far). I am attempting to fuse several of them together to get a bigger trunk. To get good taper, I release them out of the fusing bundle at different height. Once the fuse is completed, I plan to cut back the branches a lot to keep them in the right proportion. Is this plan OK?
6. Others: I also have a crepe myrtle, a bougainvillea, and a Japanese tulip magnolia in pots. I'm not sure about turning them into bonsai yet. Your thoughts?

Feel free to give me any advice on any item. Of particular interest to me is the schedule for zone 9A on when to do things with each of these items, the tools I should get etc.. Like all other endeavors I've had in life, I've spent a fair amount of time to research on the subject of bonsai. It's the practical advice that I sorely need. I know I can keep most things alive in pots. Going from there to bonsai is a long journey and at my age, I don't have much time so any short cut is very much appreciated.

Quarterly progress report
1. JM saplings are doing well. I put them as a group in a large cut off 55 gal drum, each with a ceramic tile under. After dropping the leaves in the August heat, they had a flush of leaves. The leaves are still on. Local peeps told me the leaves stay on until first hard freeze in December so I'm watching for it. I think I'll keep these saplings in that pot for a couple years. The air layers were lost in an ice storm so I'll try again next year.
2. BC: I now have 3 BC in cutoff drums. Two have air layers that already show some roots. I will cut off the layers late spring so it will be like a trunk chop. The one without air layer will stay in the pot to grow for a few more years. I also have a pond cypress in the ground that will stay there to grow for a while. The current plan is to buy a bunch of BC in the spring when the LSU Ag extension has their spring sale. I also had a tiny BC forest from cuttings that is budding but I don't know whether there are roots yet.
3. Spondias dulcis is in a shallow but large pot with the tap root cut. It grew well for 3 months with new branches and leaves. It is now in dormancy in my shop. I have a long straight trunk section, I see air layer in my future.
4. Ochna serrulata now has an air layer that I will collect late spring. This will effectively be a trunk chop. I also rescued another ochna serrulata from hurricane Michael. It is recovering and budding now inside my shop. I also bought a small ochna intergerrima. The plan is to graft scions from the intergerrima to the serrulata after the trunk chop of the serrulata.
5. Pommegranate: the trunk fusing is going well. I rewrapped the tree twice to include more side trunks into the main trunk. The trunk now is twice the size it was in August. The tree is now in dormancy outside.
6. I collected a crepe myrtle and potted it. It is doing well. My bougainvillea is growing in a large pot. It will remain in a large pot for another year or two. I may have to repot to change the soil mix to some thing more suitable for bougainvillea after being advised that my mix is too wet. The tuplip magnolia will remain in a large cutoff drum until spring next year.
7. I added 4 lantanas to my collection. I don't intend to keep them all. They are mostly for practice.
8. I also added several gardenia to my collection. Again they are for practice.
9. I bought a pair of twisted Camellia on a whim. Not a candidate for bonsai so it will be just potted flower. However, I am looking for a good one to develop.

All in all a fun quarter. I've learned a lot from BNutters here and gained a lot of experience on my own. I am looking forward to 2019.

 

[JoeH]

surprised that BC is so skinny. Do you keep it in water?

 

[Bonsai Nut]

Where are your conifers?

At the bare minimum you need some Chinese junipers and some Japanese black pines. In Pennsylvania, you can even keep Japanese white pines (my personal favorite, but can't grow 'em here in SoCal).

 

[Joe Dupre']

All I can maybe help you with is the Bald Cypress. 3 to 5 years in the ground from the 2" base could give you a bruiser with a base of 6+ inches. Dig it up and chop it then, and you could have a mostly finished, huge specimen by the time you retire. I dug one this Jan. with a 7" base and it put out 40 branches ( since trimmed back to about 15).....the longest two were ring finger size and 45" long............in 9 months. Potting soil and re-used bonsai soil worked great. Flooded every day and fertilized every two weeks with Miracle Gro double strength.

Pic is about at the 8th month stage.

I'm fairly confident that, at the end of two full growing seasons, I'll have a carved split top "survivor" specimen with all major primary branches with the secondary branches coming along nicely.

 

[Cajunrider]

Where are your conifers?

At the bare minimum you need some Chinese junipers and some Japanese black pines. In Pennsylvania, you can even keep Japanese white pines (my personal favorite, but can't grow 'em here in SoCal).

Yes I will. In 2019 plan for sure.

 

[Cajunrider]

All I can maybe help you with is the Bald Cypress. 3 to 5 years in the ground from the 2" base could give you a bruiser with a base of 6+ inches. Dig it up and chop it then, and you could have a mostly finished, huge specimen by the time you retire. I dug one this Jan. with a 7" base and it put out 40 branches ( since trimmed back to about 15).....the longest two were ring finger size and 45" long............in 9 months. Potting soil and re-used bonsai soil worked great. Flooded every day and fertilized every two weeks with Miracle Gro double strength.

Pic is about at the 8th month stage.

I'm fairly confident that, at the end of two full growing seasons, I'll have a carved split top "survivor" specimen with all major primary branches with the secondary branches coming along nicely.

View attachment 219379

That's what I hope to do.

 

[Cajunrider]

surprised that BC is so skinny. Do you keep it in water?

It was in poor shape when I got it. I'm nursing it back to health this year.

 

[JoeH]

It was in poor shape when I got it. I'm nursing it back to health this year.

But do you keep the base submerged? It helps get it flared out better.