Help me with my wiring? Advice with design?

[Tntthunder]

So I recently went to my first workshop and it was great, I learnt a lot and It made me a little more confident with trying to do things alone. However when it comes to wiring I am still not confident in my abilities and I was hoping to get advice on the wiring here?

Basically I used a young and ugly juniper that someone gave me to practice the limited wiring I could do on it. Last time I tried to wire, all the wired branches died in the winter. Not sure if I was too rough or they were too tight etc. So how did I do here with the very little I did? Is it too tight? Are they anchored correctly in the soil?



Furthermore, I noticed I may have been a little rough, would a split like this kill the branch? How can I prevent this in the future and how can I help the tree it if it happens?



Any advice on how to improve would be awesome.

Also this is the tree the teacher at the workshop helped me on, it's a yew, unfortunately the branches he left are too green to wire so have a year or two before I can do anything he said. We will work with it again together in the future and he said to come up with ideas for possible designs to aim for. Also mentioned bonsai works with triangles, hence the way I drew it.

Would something like this be ok? The apex and the main branch heading left. What other possibilities are there?





Also when doing the dead wood, did I cut too deeply? Will these marks be a bad thing or will they wear away along with the deadwood getting a softer look?



Sorry for all the questions! Guess I am just getting more and more curious about this art form.

 

[Viktor’s bonsai]

I

So I recently went to my first workshop and it was great, I learnt a lot and It made me a little more confident with trying to do things alone. However when it comes to wiring I am still not confident in my abilities and I was hoping to get advice on the wiring here?

Basically I used a young and ugly juniper that someone gave me to practice the limited wiring I could do on it. Last time I tried to wire, all the wired branches died in the winter. Not sure if I was too rough or they were too tight etc. So how did I do here with the very little I did? Is it too tight? Are they anchored correctly in the soil?

View attachment 490919

Furthermore more, I noticed I may have been a little rough, would a split like this kill the branch? How can I prevent this in the future and how can I help the tree it if it happens?

View attachment 490920

Any advice on how to improve would be awesome.

Also this is the tree the teacher at the workshop helped me on, it's a yew, unfortunately the branches he left are too green to wire so have a year or two before I can do anything he said. We will work with it again together in the future and he said to come up with ideas for possible designs to aim for. Also mentioned bonsai works with triangles, hence the way I drew it.

Would something like this be ok? The apex and the main branch heading left. What other possibilities are there?

View attachment 490926

View attachment 490929

Also when doing the dead wood, did I cut too deeply? Will these marks be a bad thing or will they wear away along with the deadwood getting a softer look?

View attachment 490937

Sorry for all the questions! Guess I am just getting more and more curious about this art form.

That yew looks like it’s got some really nice potential! Good base, taper and deadwood, tho if I were you I’d ply the fibers down more on the two ugly jins on the right side so those notches disappear.

I suppose you cut those notches to apply guy-wires… I’d suggest that next time you need a guy wire(s) apply it by creating holes on the lip of the nursery pot, Also I think a moyogi would suit this tree best, since making a slant style kind of contradicts the right side jins.

Creating a top closer to them makes it look more pleasing in my eyes, kind of like the live foliage is hugging the dead like they belong together. Got a little poetic there hehehe

 

[Viktor’s bonsai]

I

That yew looks like it’s got some really nice potential! Good base, taper and deadwood, tho if I were you I’d ply the fibers down more on the two ugly jins on the right side so those notches disappear.

I suppose you cut those notches to apply guy-wires… I’d suggest that next time you need a guy wire(s) apply it by creating holes on the lip of the nursery pot, Also I think a moyogi would suit this tree best, since making a slant style kind of contradicts the right side jins.

Creating a top closer to them makes it look more pleasing in my eyes, kind of like the live foliage is hugging the dead like they belong together. Got a little poetic there hehehe

Maybe even taking the back branch and wiring it down behind the jins would create a nice picture frame like effect.

 

[PowerTap]

Do you have before pictures of these trees? I wonder if your problem is not wiring, but in taking too much foliage off the tree in one go? These both look like young trees, and you didn't leave a lot of folliage on them.

Your wire application doesn't look bad we all get better with practice, but you've got a decent start.

 

[Japonicus]

Bonsai Wiring Essentials

Uncover professional secrets to wiring better, faster and more accurately in this FREE mini-class, and develop beautiful bonsai trees!

www.craftsy.com

this is the best advice you're going to get on application to conifers and in general.
Bending and timing is another thing.
Using the right sized wire with the right metal so you can coil at 60º and hold
without overworking the branches is best I can offer.

 

[Viktor’s bonsai]

Maybe even taking the back branch and wiring it down behind the jins would create a nice picture frame like effect.

Kind of like this perhaps?

 

[Tntthunder]

I

That yew looks like it’s got some really nice potential! Good base, taper and deadwood, tho if I were you I’d ply the fibers down more on the two ugly jins on the right side so those notches disappear.

I suppose you cut those notches to apply guy-wires… I’d suggest that next time you need a guy wire(s) apply it by creating holes on the lip of the nursery pot, Also I think a moyogi would suit this tree best, since making a slant style kind of contradicts the right side jins

You mean pull the threads so the notches are gone?

Also no guy wires, this was cut straight from nursery stock. The notches were caused when creating the deadwood, cutting into the bark to be able to peel it off.

 

[Tntthunder]

Do you have before pictures of these trees? I wonder if your problem is not wiring, but in taking too much foliage off the tree in one go? These both look like young trees, and you didn't leave a lot of folliage on them.

Your wire application doesn't look bad we all get better with practice, but you've got a decent start.

Sadly I do not, This juniper was given to me like this, I just did the wiring for some practice. The yew we forgot to take the before picture. However the workshop teacher said that yews backbud like crazy which is why he felt comfortable taking so much foliage. Apparently my job now is to give it sun, water and lots of fertilizer until next spring. It was nursery stock that looked like this.

 

[Tntthunder]

Bonsai Wiring Essentials

Uncover professional secrets to wiring better, faster and more accurately in this FREE mini-class, and develop beautiful bonsai trees!

www.craftsy.com

this is the best advice you're going to get on application to conifers and in general.
Bending and timing is another thing.
Using the right sized wire with the right metal so you can coil at 60º and hold
without overworking the branches is best I can offer.

Thank you, will check it out!

 

[Tntthunder]

Kind of like this perhaps? View attachment 490952

I see what you mean, I do like having foliage behind the deadwood, Thanks!

 

[Viktor’s bonsai]

You mean pull the threads so the notches are gone?

Also no guy wires, this was cut straight from nursery stock. The notches were caused when creating the deadwood, cutting into the bark to be able to peel it off.

Yes exactly, I honestly don’t really know if you need to pull the fibers.
It could potentially disappear with age but if it was my tree it would really annoy me, really depends on your preference; short, or long jins.

 

[Japonicus]

Thank you, will check it out!

There are several videos that compliment each other in that link.
When I was 1st steered to Colin’s video tutorials, I had to join craftsy
free, and add to cart, also free.
You can pause the videos and add your own personal notes to the timeline
below the video. Watch these over and over and practice.
The using one wire for 2 branches (slingshot method) and not crossing
wires, sure makes for a clean and appealing look.
Your wiring looks pretty good, but one straight stretch where you skipped a spiral
to favour 2 shoots, 1st pic left branch. So you’re on the right track.
Colin has a super nice pleasant tutorial attitude, and sounds a lot like Sean Connery.

 

[Shibui]

It definitely will not be the wiring that would kill any branches on that juniper. Not too tight, not too loose - just right.
There is that spot halfway up the left branch where the spiral is real long so offers no support for a bend in that area. Try to keep spirals even wherever possible to support bends but dpn't try to fix this now. Doing so is just likely to cause more problems than it will solve.
A split like the one at the base of right trunk is no real problem. There's still plenty of connection to support that branch and the split will heal in a year, maybe 2 but will always be weak there so try to remember not to put any pressure there ever again. That split is typical of forks like that. Seems to always be a weak spot on many plants so worth remembering whenever you are trying to bend branches down.

No problem with the amount of foliage reduction - at least not here. I regularly reduce junipers way more than that and they grow well after.

One thing does occur to me though. Junipers do not cope with bending in spring very well. Cambium is growing fast through spring so bark is very loosely attached to the wood underneath. Bending in spring can separate bark from wood and rupture sap networks leading to death of entire branches. The problem does not show up for a few weeks when many have forgotten about the bending and timing and do not associate the 2 things. I guess Finland is still in spring so I would have deferred wiring and bending juniper until after middle of summer but I guess a workshop/ class can't wait for the best timing so the teacher elected to go ahead and hope.

The cuts in the jins are a bit deeper than necessary but no real problem. The outer wood can be scraped or pulled down to where those cuts disappear or just leave it as is and try not to look.

As for style for that tree there's no point planning when there's nothing to work with. Wait for regrowth and work with what is there rather than what you hope will come.

 

[Tntthunder]

It definitely will not be the wiring that would kill any branches on that juniper. Not too tight, not too loose - just right.
There is that spot halfway up the left branch where the spiral is real long so offers no support for a bend in that area. Try to keep spirals even wherever possible to support bends but dpn't try to fix this now. Doing so is just likely to cause more problems than it will solve.
A split like the one at the base of right trunk is no real problem. There's still plenty of connection to support that branch and the split will heal in a year, maybe 2 but will always be weak there so try to remember not to put any pressure there ever again. That split is typical of forks like that. Seems to always be a weak spot on many plants so worth remembering whenever you are trying to bend branches down.

No problem with the amount of foliage reduction - at least not here. I regularly reduce junipers way more than that and they grow well after.

One thing does occur to me though. Junipers do not cope with bending in spring very well. Cambium is growing fast through spring so bark is very loosely attached to the wood underneath. Bending in spring can separate bark from wood and rupture sap networks leading to death of entire branches. The problem does not show up for a few weeks when many have forgotten about the bending and timing and do not associate the 2 things. I guess Finland is still in spring so I would have deferred wiring and bending juniper until after middle of summer but I guess a workshop/ class can't wait for the best timing so the teacher elected to go ahead and hope.

The cuts in the jins are a bit deeper than necessary but no real problem. The outer wood can be scraped or pulled down to where those cuts disappear or just leave it as is and try not to look.

As for style for that tree there's no point planning when there's nothing to work with. Wait for regrowth and work with what is there rather than what you hope will come.

Thank you! Really appreciate such a good response.

 

[Tntthunder]

Thank you! Really appreciate such a good response.

How'd I do? It seems to be better and I hope I peeled it correctly as I've had only limited practice.

 

[bwaynef]

Start the wire in the soil at the same angle as it continues up the trunk, ...and it should enter the soil right next to the trunk. Its all about anchoring, and with the big gap between the soil and where it touches the trunk, you have no anchor.

The smaller wire that goes to the left branch should be anchored against the thicker wire that runs along the trunk. I got a little sloppy with my color selection, but the thinner red line would be a continuation of that thin wire on the left branch, around the trunk and up, 1½ - 2 turns.

As a bit of a nitpick, with the fork at the apex being about the same size, you should carry the thicker wire up the longer branch of the fork. Not a huge deal as it is. That said, you could use the thick wire as an anchor and pair a smaller wire on it (1½ -2 turns) onto the remaining branch to position it better.

Once you've finished wiring it out, move the branches into appropriate locations. If the trunk line is how you want it, I'd recommend wiring the other branch in the fork of the apex and bending that branch down, and positioning the lower left branch down as well. (Eventually it'll likely be removed.)

I've attached a rough estimate of what I'm trying to say, along with a few examples that should help you understand wiring. The etsy link given above is also excellent.

 

[Tntthunder]

Start the wire in the soil at the same angle as it continues up the trunk, ...and it should enter the soil right next to the trunk. Its all about anchoring, and with the big gap between the soil and where it touches the trunk, you have no anchor.

The smaller wire that goes to the left branch should be anchored against the thicker wire that runs along the trunk. I got a little sloppy with my color selection, but the thinner red line would be a continuation of that thin wire on the left branch, around the trunk and up, 1½ - 2 turns.

As a bit of a nitpick, with the fork at the apex being about the same size, you should carry the thicker wire up the longer branch of the fork. Not a huge deal as it is. That said, you could use the thick wire as an anchor and pair a smaller wire on it (1½ -2 turns) onto the remaining branch to position it better.

Once you've finished wiring it out, move the branches into appropriate locations. If the trunk line is how you want it, I'd recommend wiring the other branch in the fork of the apex and bending that branch down, and positioning the lower left branch down as well. (Eventually it'll likely be removed.)

I've attached a rough estimate of what I'm trying to say, along with a few examples that should help you understand wiring. The etsy link given above is also excellent.

Ok So I think I understand most, but to clarify though with the smaller wire, you're saying instead of also having it in the soil I should run it up the trunk a few turns along the thicker wire and then continue onto the smaller left branch?

Thanks for the explaination and diagrams also, they were quite helpful.

 

[FreshAirSunshine]

You mean pull the threads so the notches are gone?

Also no guy wires, this was cut straight from nursery stock. The notches were caused when creating the deadwood, cutting into the bark to be able to peel it off.

It may help to take pliers and pinch/peal off the bark for the Jin through friction rather than cutting and peeling. At least that’s what I saw Mark Arbag doing at a recent demonstration.

 

[bwaynef]

to clarify though with the smaller wire <snip> I should run it up the trunk a few turns along the thicker wire and then continue onto the smaller left branch?

Yes.

As for creating jins, if you're dealing w/ fresh wood, score at the base of the jin with a knife so that when you're peeling it back, the bark remains intact where you want it. You can even use scissors to score it.

 

[IzzyG]

I didn’t read all of the replies so this might have been mentioned but in your second photo, the tear is from a lack of shoulder support. To prevent it, use your off hand to support any shoulder joints as your main hand bends the branch. If you’re going slow enough, you should feel or at least notice the tear pretty quickly. You can always put a bit of healing paste on the tear and cover with putty. I’ve heard some people use wood glue to just cover such tears but I’ve never tried that.

As for design, this would be my 2 cents.



You can choose to grow out the main trunk to the left and create a literati style or build secondary structure from where it’s at and bend branches down so the foliage is to the left of the trunk. Both options pushes an asymmetrical design that ages the tree.

This is what I’m thinking with the second option: