Help - Pine ID

[Devo12]

Hey guys ,
I know it’s haaard to ID a small pine as lots look similar . I’m thinking Aleppo or Stone ? Any know what this could be ?
Thanks hey

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

I see juvenile foliage, which makes me think it's a stone pine.

 

[Devo12]

I see juvenile foliage, which makes me think it's a stone pine.

Awesome . There a few pine species around so it’s hard to identify. Plenty Stone pine around . Know if they make good bonsai ? Thinking Literati with this guy

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

I tried, but they revert to juvenile foliage too easily. Stone pine in general is hard to get under control in a pot, I've only seen one with adult foliage as a bonsai on the internet once. They are pretty flexible and they can take a beating.

Don't rule out aleppo pine too soon though, I have a couple of those as a seedling and I don't know how they behave as adults.

The trait that almost every stone pine has, is that it makes juvenile foliage with a lot of resin on it. That would be a good identification key. Aleppo pine doesn't do that.

 

[Devo12]

Really? So Aleppo could potentially be better hey?

 

[Shibui]

Interesting. I grew alleppo pines for a few years but gave them away because they had juvenile foliage for many years and also prone to reverting to juvenile when pruned. It is possible the ones I had were P. brutia. I believe they are closely related to halapensis and are often confused over here.
I have also grown lots of P. pinea and agree that juvenile foliage is a significant feature but I have not had both species at the same time to look for distinguishing factors.

 

[Devo12]

I tried, but they revert to juvenile foliage too easily. Stone pine in general is hard to get under control in a pot, I've only seen one with adult foliage as a bonsai on the internet once. They are pretty flexible and they can take a beating.

Don't rule out aleppo pine too soon though, I have a couple of those as a seedling and I don't know how they behave as adults.

The trait that almost every stone pine has, is that it makes juvenile foliage with a lot of resin on it. That would be a good identification key. Aleppo pine doesn't do that.

This the same type ?

 

[Devo12]

I’m thinking it could P. Radiata?

 

[Shibui]

Radiata usually has needles in groups of 3 and are relatively soft and fine. Hard to see clearly in the photo but it looks like needles are in pairs here so probably not radiata.
Where are these trees growing? Your part of the world could give some clues to possible species even though many species are now planted right round the world.

 

[Devo12]

Plenty pine here :/ in South Africa . They are in 3’s

 

[Shibui]

3 needles so most likely P. radiata in SA. There are other 3 needle pines but radiata is most common here too as it is the preferred plantation softwood.
Raidiata also has persistent juvenile foliage and can also revert to juvenile when pruned.

Buds reasonably well on bare wood which can be an advantage but I'm not really sure about other cultural methods. i have only rescued a couple and not really done much with them apart from keeping them alive in pots.
There may be some info here on Bnut and I know there are some threads with good cultural details on Ausbonsai.com

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

This the same type ?

I honestly can't tell. I know adult halepensis has plated bark and looks similar to pinus nigra.

Stone pine should have longer needles

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

There are some Greeks and mediterranean area people on the forum, maybe they can help?
@my nellie , @maroun.c maybe?

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Pinus radiata - I have seen photos of decent bonsai from P. radiata. They are in the same sub-genus with Pinus thunbergii, the Japanese black pine and should be "bonsai-able"

They are recommended by some for bonsai for those in areas too tropical for the typical Japanese pines, as P. radiata does not need a frost or freeze over winter.

 

[Devo12]

Pinus radiata - I have seen photos of decent bonsai from P. radiata. They are in the same sub-genus with Pinus thunbergii, the Japanese black pine and should be "bonsai-able"

They are recommended by some for bonsai for those in areas too tropical for the typical Japanese pines, as P. radiata does not need a frost or freeze over winter.

They do look similar to JBP . Hope I can get them to bonsai quite well would you say they as easy or manageable as the Japanese pines

 

[maroun.c]

IDs isnt my strong point but I fo t see the juvenile foliage of stone in this one .

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

They do look similar to JBP . Hope I can get them to bonsai quite well would you say they as easy or manageable as the Japanese pines

Honestly I do not know, no first hand knowledge. They are not winter hardy in my area. We have very cold winters, so I only work with other species of pine that are hardy to significant cold. There are some southern California bonsai growers, who live near or in their native range, perhaps one of them will comment here.

 

[Shibui]

I have not found them as easy to manage as the Japanese pines. There is a debate about whether they should be treated as single or dual flush species.
We do have a few nice, older radiatas in the bonsai community here.

As mentioned earlier there are some threads on Ausbonsai with plenty of good info - growing Pinus radiata

 

[Devo12]

I have not found them as easy to manage as the Japanese pines. There is a debate about whether they should be treated as single or dual flush species.
We do have a few nice, older radiatas in the bonsai community here.

As mentioned earlier there are some threads on Ausbonsai with plenty of good info - growing Pinus radiata

Potential for a Literati style for this chap?
anyone welcome to put in some input - have a few like this so this I just one
Thanks guys

 

[Potawatomi13]

Yes. Already has sparse branching to work with and thin trunk to bend up(at proper season). No boring repetitive curves/bends please.