Help Styling/Adding Movement to Branches

gbupp

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I was hoping you all could offer some assistance with how I should add some movement to my Chinese Elm's branches. They have grown to be rather straight branches, and I am looking to try and make it look a bit more natural. Thanks!

P.S. Sorry if the pictures a bit poor, I am working on getting a new Camera soon. Regardless, this should show you pretty easily the branch placement and styling thus far.
 

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Vance Wood

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I was hoping you all could offer some assistance with how I should add some movement to my Chinese Elm's branches. They have grown to be rather straight branches, and I am looking to try and make it look a bit more natural. Thanks!

P.S. Sorry if the pictures a bit poor, I am working on getting a new Camera soon. Regardless, this should show you pretty easily the branch placement and styling thus far.

You could use wire or weights or the combination of both. However the best technique is to use the clip and grow technique where you allow a branch to extend and then cut it. As the new bud extends the branch, you allow that branch to grow and then cut it again causing the branch extension to go in another direction. If this is done right you get a bunch of zig-zags, twists and curves in the branch that look natural. Some times wiring is not the best option due to the brittle nature of the branches and the propensity to scaring.
 

Zach Smith

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You could use wire or weights or the combination of both. However the best technique is to use the clip and grow technique where you allow a branch to extend and then cut it. As the new bud extends the branch, you allow that branch to grow and then cut it again causing the branch extension to go in another direction. If this is done right you get a bunch of zig-zags, twists and curves in the branch that look natural. Some times wiring is not the best option due to the brittle nature of the branches and the propensity to scaring.
What Vance said, and I'd add that another reason your tree doesn't look quite right is the thickness of the branches is out of scale with the trunk. Consider cutting them back hard, then letting the new branch leader grow to thicken each branch more. This will allow you to introduce movement while building girth.

Zach
 

Poink88

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I agree with Vance and Zach.

Wiring can only do so much esp on hardened branches. In this case, it can get better not it will never look great.

If you go with clip and grow...be sure to do it right the first time. Nothing more frustrating than building a good set of branches only to realize it is further out than you want/need....and have to start over again!!! :eek:

Remember too that you can have sacrificial branch (or branches) on a branch to help thicken it up.

Good luck!!!
 

bonsai barry

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It's an interesting trunk but the branches need to grow significantly to be in the correct proportion. I would let the branches grow free to thicken them up, and then clip and grow as stated.

Also, I'm looking at the soil in the pot and it seem like it hasn't been repotted in a while. You might think about repotting to a bigger pot with better draining soil to help speed up the growth of those branches.
 

gbupp

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You could use wire or weights or the combination of both. However the best technique is to use the clip and grow technique where you allow a branch to extend and then cut it. As the new bud extends the branch, you allow that branch to grow and then cut it again causing the branch extension to go in another direction. If this is done right you get a bunch of zig-zags, twists and curves in the branch that look natural. Some times wiring is not the best option due to the brittle nature of the branches and the propensity to scaring.

What Vance said, and I'd add that another reason your tree doesn't look quite right is the thickness of the branches is out of scale with the trunk. Consider cutting them back hard, then letting the new branch leader grow to thicken each branch more. This will allow you to introduce movement while building girth.
Zach

It's an interesting trunk but the branches need to grow significantly to be in the correct proportion. I would let the branches grow free to thicken them up, and then clip and grow as stated.

Also, I'm looking at the soil in the pot and it seem like it hasn't been repotted in a while. You might think about repotting to a bigger pot with better draining soil to help speed up the growth of those branches.

Thanks for the input guys! Just to get this straight, you are all talking about "clipping" the foliage and letting the thick branches grow right? Not cutting the actual branches themselves? Either is fine, just want to ensure I understand what you are attempting to communicate.

Additionally the previous owner said it was re-potted in early October of 2012. That is isn't that much time and I would be worried about stressing it out too much. I do have plans to move it into a better pot with other soil, but I was probably going to wait another month or two. Is this a mistake? Thanks!
 

october

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Hello gbupp. This tree has potential, but it will take time. They mean cut the branches. Here is a virt of some cuts that could be made. There are 2 reasons for these cuts. One, is lack of taper. Notice how your branches all are as thick at the beginning of the branch as the end. They look like tubes. The point where branches eminate from the trunk should be the thickest. As you move along the branch towards the end, the branch should become thinner. By cutting back the branch, and letting a new bud extend. That new bud will always be thinner since it is younger. Hence, where the branch grows out, you will have a look from thick to thin, which is what we mean by taper.

The second thing is thickness, these branches need to thicken and mature so they complement the thick trunk of the tree. To achieve this, you have to let the branches and foliage grow untouched. You can cut the branches back now and then let the younger sub branches grow for a year or more... or you could let the whole thing grow now and cut back in a year or 2. Either way, whenever you cut young branches or sub branches (branches that eminate off a main branch) You will need to wait until you have at least 6-8 pairs of leaves and then you can cut the branch..or until the new branch becomes wood. If you cut a young branch that has not woodened out (hardends off), the branch may dies.

I hope this was helpful.

Rob
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gbupp

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Hello gbupp. This tree has potential, but it will take time. They mean cut the branches. Here is a virt of some cuts that could be made. There are 2 reasons for these cuts. One, is lack of taper. Notice how your branches all are as thick at the beginning of the branch as the end. They look like tubes. The point where branches eminate from the trunk should be the thickest. As you move along the branch towards the end, the branch should become thinner. By cutting back the branch, and letting a new bud extend. That new bud will always be thinner since it is younger. Hence, where the branch grows out, you will have a look from thick to thin, which is what we mean by taper.

The second thing is thickness, these branches need to thicken and mature so they complement the thick trunk of the tree. To achieve this, you have to let the branches and foliage grow untouched. You can cut the branches back now and then let the younger sub branches grow for a year or more... or you could let the whole thing grow now and cut back in a year or 2. Either way, whenever you cut young branches or sub branches (branches that eminate off a main branch) You will need to wait until you have at least 6-8 pairs of leaves and then you can cut the branch..or until the new branch becomes wood. If you cut a young branch that has not woodened out (hardends off), the branch may dies.

I hope this was helpful.

Rob
View attachment 29892

I see. This did clear up a lot, thank you! Out of the two options I have, it sounds like it would be better to cut now rather than later and just get the dirty work done with. What type of tool will I want to use when cutting the branches? I have Concave Cutters if those are required, however I'm not entirely sure what is optimal to cut such thick branches.

Thanks!
 

october

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I see. This did clear up a lot, thank you! Out of the two options I have, it sounds like it would be better to cut now rather than later and just get the dirty work done with. What type of tool will I want to use when cutting the branches? I have Concave Cutters if those are required, however I'm not entirely sure what is optimal to cut such thick branches.

Thanks!

Concave cutters are ok. They tend to work well for cutting off branches eminating from the trunk. However, they can work here to. Just make the cuts a bit angled with them facing up. Also, try for very clean, definitive cuts. Cuts should not have bits of cambium or bark haging off the edges of the cut.

Cut like this
 

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gbupp

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Concave cutters are ok. They tend to work well for cutting off branches eminating from the trunk. However, they can work here to. Just make the cuts a bit angled with them facing up. Also, try for very clean, definitive cuts. Cuts should not have bits of cambium or bark haging off the edges of the cut.

Cut like this

Sounds good, thanks for the information. Just because I want to know "why" I'm doing it particularly, why should the wound face/angle up?
 

october

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In time, the new young buds will become the second half of the branch and you will have taper. Now it will start progressing nicely.

Like this
 

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You want to prune in front of a nice latent or new bud if you can. The main thing with the angled cut is that wherever the angle points to is where your new bud will sprout and be the strongest.

Scars can face left, right, or up. It's better not to have a down facing scar. The reason is that it is much easier to work with a branch that is growing too far down then try to wire a branch down later in the game.

I would begin by hard pruning like october has drawn for you with the angels directing the new growth out and away from the main branch.

Edit: I'm working on a branch pruning article at the moment.

Check out this article by Harry Harrington it will get you on your way :cool:

Here
 
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gbupp

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Should I be cutting all the branches at the same time, or do them one at a time over a spread out period to reduce the amount of stress all at once?
 
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Should I be cutting all the branches at the same time, or do them one at a time over a spread out period to reduce the amount of stress all at once?

If it's well established I would give it a good hard prune in Spring or Summer. Another good time would be in winter once it has lost all of it's leaves. Here in Florida I try to wait until late February to avoid any die back on my crapes etc.
 

gbupp

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If it's well established I would give it a good hard prune in Spring or Summer. Another good time would be in winter once it has lost all of it's leaves. Here in Florida I try to wait until late February to avoid any die back on my crapes etc.

I also live in Florida. So you would wait until late-February and do them all in one fell swoop? I will say the tree is growing quite vigorously as it is, but I find all my Elms do this in Florida weather.
 

gbupp

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So it's been a while, but I eventually did cut back the branches as suggested. I am now letting it free grow to develop taper. My question is at this point, if the free growth is really not going in the direction I would want, do I really let it just free grow? Or does free grow mean having the tree free grow in the general direction you want?
 

Poink88

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My question is at this point, if the free growth is really not going in the direction I would want, do I really let it just free grow? Or does free grow mean having the tree free grow in the general direction you want?

There will be contradictory advise but here is mine :D

I'll make sure the new branch is going the way I want before I let it "grow". IMHO, fix it ASAP so you won't have to later when it is much more difficult and more painful to deal with.
 

october

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So it's been a while, but I eventually did cut back the branches as suggested. I am now letting it free grow to develop taper. My question is at this point, if the free growth is really not going in the direction I would want, do I really let it just free grow? Or does free grow mean having the tree free grow in the general direction you want?

Your question cannot be answered until you specify which growth is not growing in the direction you want. Is it the new, young growth that is growing out that does not seem to be growing in the direction you want? If so, that is fine. The young branches on elms need to grow out to gain strength. When they mature, then you can wire the young branches into place. Also, directional pruning can come into play. A very important fact of pruning elms is that you must wait until the branches preferably have 6- 8 sets of leaves before the branch can be cut. If you cut before this or cut before the branch woods out, the new branch may die. Basically, your tree will be looking like a straggly mess for a while. Then it can be pruned for some shape.

Here are a couple of virts.

The first virt shows where to cut. Cutting here will allow you to grow a new branch. This will not only produce a well tapered branch, but will send the new growth in the direction you want. Hence directional pruning.

The second virt is what I mean about waiting until there are 8 sets of leaves or more before you cut.

Rob
 

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gbupp

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This is all new growth that I am referring to. Essentially it is growing in the total opposite direction that I would want, and even allowing it to harden and wire would not be desirable. Thank you for the inputs and it looks like I have something to go take care of!
 

october

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You should definitely post pictures before doing anything. It is imperative that chinese elm new growth be allowed to mature and harden off before pruning. If the area you are cutting at has not hardened off, it may kill the whole, new, young branch.

Rob
 
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